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How to defend against presidental elections in the USA

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    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Trump is world traveled, as he has numerous business holdings in other countries. He is also experienced and cultured in foreign protocols as you pretty much have to be to do business on foreign soil, which requires working through various local laws, as well as international laws.
    I don't think Trump gives much of a damn about international cultures except making a profit off of them, and I think foreign governments know that. He's way shadier on international influences than Clinton, at least we've seen her books. And this goes back to one of the biggest scandals Trump hasn't dealt with: his tax returns and disclosure of his business holdings in other countries....any one of which could sink his chances as president if it came out. People have been pulling at strings with Clinton's foreign contributions to her charity....Trump might actually owe money to people in various countries that would pose a great threat to his candidacy (including blackmail). So, no taxes means he never solved that problem and today it might be the end. This is just one example of something if he'd done it differently might have swung more voters...

    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Attended New York Military Academy, graduated with rank of Captain(more military experience than Obama or Clinton)
    Yeah. No, that's not military experience.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Evergrey View Post
      I voted for Sanders in the primaries. :p

      Comment


        Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
        I have a home, and yes I own and live in it, but my unemployment has nothing to do with the economy. I am a contractor and I get paid by the word, dude. When it rains, it pours. Sometimes there are droughts. But I'm doing OK. I don't think you can rank Obama as a failure, unless you're only counting opinions, which are numerous as assholes. By objective standards and numbers, every arrow has been in the green for a while. The economy has grown every year jobs have been positive every year since the downturn from the recession. Stock market is 10,000 points higher. We're not fighting a major ground war in the Middle East. All you can really pin to Obama with "failure" on it are minor scandals and foreign and domestic issues that's aren't his fault, unless you've decided everything is his fault. And some have.
        If the last eight years tell us anything, it's that nothing is going to be Obama's fault until mid-January. We're still on "it's Bush's fault," though, thankfully, I haven't heard that in a while, now.
        Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

        Comment


          Lol, a "writer" who cannot read...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
            I have a home, and yes I own and live in it, but my unemployment has nothing to do with the economy. I am a contractor and I get paid by the word, dude. When it rains, it pours. Sometimes there are droughts. But I'm doing OK. I don't think you can rank Obama as a failure, unless you're only counting opinions, which are numerous as assholes. By objective standards and numbers, every arrow has been in the green for a while. The economy has grown every year jobs have been positive every year since the downturn from the recession. Stock market is 10,000 points higher. We're not fighting a major ground war in the Middle East to the tune of a billion a day or whatever it was in its full swing.... All you can really pin to Obama with "failure" on it are minor scandals and foreign and domestic issues that's aren't his fault, unless you've decided everything is his fault. And some have. The history books will show everything in the positive.
            Hate to break it to you, but until you got to the point of Mid-East War, nothing you said there can be directly attributed to any of Obama's policies. His economic policies won't bear actual fruit, good or bad, until he is long out of office. I know both parties like to claim the good that happens while they are in office, but economics just don't work that quickly.

            We can talk about Obama referring to ISIS as the JV team or promising that there would be no "boots on the ground" in the fight against ISIS. Army Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler's widow may wish to contend that last statement... So sure he got the US out of one war in the middle east only to get it back into another.
            Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

            "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

            Comment


              Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
              I have a home, and yes I own and live in it, but my unemployment has nothing to do with the economy. I am a contractor and I get paid by the word, dude. When it rains, it pours. Sometimes there are droughts. But I'm doing OK. I don't think you can rank Obama as a failure, unless you're only counting opinions, which are numerous as assholes. By objective standards and numbers, every arrow has been in the green for a while. The economy has grown every year jobs have been positive every year since the downturn from the recession. Stock market is 10,000 points higher. We're not fighting a major ground war in the Middle East to the tune of a billion a day or whatever it was in its full swing.... All you can really pin to Obama with "failure" on it are minor scandals and foreign and domestic issues that's aren't his fault, unless you've decided everything is his fault. And some have. The history books will show everything in the positive.
              Yes, he is a failure, particularly in foreign policy.

              If I truly thought he was a great president, I'd say so, despite not agreeing with him on many policy or political issues.

              And of course, nothing is his fault, it was all GHWB. And the truth is, some of it was, but not all of it.

              See what I mean?
              Falling for Judo since 1980

              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

              Comment


                Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                but economics just don't work that quickly.
                That is quite false, economics works much quicker than people think.
                Of course depending on the policy. Some policies are long term policies some policies are short term.
                Though even the long term policies are going to start showing before a 2 term president leaves office.
                Though honestly the President doesn't have a whole fucking lot to do with the economy in general.
                The Fed has a much bigger influence, though.
                Depending on the congress, congress can have a huge or next to no impact on the economy.
                Truth is, the CRASH is not the government's fault.
                It was the markets fault.
                You had over a trillion dollars disappear almost overnight. Bubbles that big hurt when they burst.
                That is a lot of money to take out of an economy.
                Money that was already largely spent it represented real resources.
                Quantitive easing something the Fed did, helped the recovery would have been much more painful without it.
                The Economy started to bounce back under Obama does he deserve the credit? Some but not a lot.
                We do have a few problems facing us, they are nothing that any government did.
                One being the paradoxical problem of workers being too damn efficient now. Between computers, robots, and other forms of automation one worker now can do the work of many people. Manufacturing is no longer a good blue collar middle income job.
                We have a service based economy but in many ways that is a race to 0 especially if you work for someone else.
                Someone has to be able to afford the services you offer.
                Unlike manufacturing where I can make 10 widgets and you can make 10 different widgets we can trade widgets, and still have widgets left over to trade with other people.
                Service is like this hey man I will clean your house if you mow my lawn. Net result not much different if I mowed my own damn lawn and you cleaned your own damn house.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                  Hate to break it to you, but until you got to the point of Mid-East War, nothing you said there can be directly attributed to any of Obama's policies. His economic policies won't bear actual fruit, good or bad, until he is long out of office. I know both parties like to claim the good that happens while they are in office, but economics just don't work that quickly.
                  That doesn't make any sense. The recession recovery and mild growth over the last 8 years was due to Bush, then? If not Obama, then who? The recession is directly tied to Bush, as was the first emergency stimulus, not to mention, his very shitty jobs creation record and let's not forget, the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever. So are you saying the jobs created under Obama aren't attributable to him? Because that's the opposite of what the economists say last I checked. Objectively economists have said we're doing OK, and it's the result of this administration, not the last one for sure. Under Bush, a huge surplus grown under Clinton was squandered and we went back into the red.

                  Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                  So sure he got the US out of one war in the middle east only to get it back into another.
                  The US isn't at war. The Iraqis and Kurds are fighting ISIS, not the full force of the US military, which is what taxes the treasury. The US "War Chest" is growing, so what war are you referring to?
                  Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 11/08/2016 2:34pm, .

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                    The recession is directly tied to Bush
                    Wrong, point to a policy that was set by Bush that allowed for stated income stated asset loans.
                    Can you point to a single thing that Bush did that caused the market to crash?
                    Show me a Bush Policy that created the Housing Bubble.
                    What policy set by bush allowed for Tranches and Debt to be miss rated?
                    What policy set did ANYTHING related to the market crash?
                    We live in a country that strives to have a free market, no its not 100% free but there was no policy he could have made that would have gone through that would have stopped it.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by BKR View Post
                      Yes, he is a failure, particularly in foreign policy.

                      If I truly thought he was a great president, I'd say so, despite not agreeing with him on many policy or political issues.

                      And of course, nothing is his fault, it was all GHWB. And the truth is, some of it was, but not all of it.

                      See what I mean?
                      But what's your rubric for failing foreign policy? Here's mine:

                      * What nations are now our enemies that were our allies before? None.
                      * Have we made any new state enemies? No.
                      * Are our alliances stronger than under Bush and his doctrine of unilateral, "with us or against us" policy? I'd say our relationship with Britain, France, the EU, NATO and the UN in general are ok.
                      * Is the humanitarian crisis in Syria the fault of Obama, given the fact that the Russians are protecting Assad? I think this is too complicated to point the finger at any one person, even if you blame Obama for bluffing with the "red line" rhetoric. What else could he have done better?
                      * Was any embassy in Libya ever really "secure"? Probably not, and little that could have been done to ever change it.
                      * Is Obama the root cause of ISIS? Of course not, they are nothing new. These guys have been murdering people and bombing shit for years, we only gave them their newest name in recent years, before that they were just Al Qaeda in Iraq. Before that name, they had another. Withdrawing troops from Iraq didn't create what became ISIS, they've been there for decades chopping off heads. They chopped off Daniel Pearl's head way back in 2002. They did it again this decade and people were amazed, but it was nothing new.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                        Wrong, point to a policy that was set by Bush that allowed for stated income stated asset loans.
                        Can you point to a single thing that Bush did that caused the market to crash?
                        Show me a Bush Policy that created the Housing Bubble.
                        What policy set by bush allowed for Tranches and Debt to be miss rated?
                        What policy set did ANYTHING related to the market crash?
                        We live in a country that strives to have a free market, no its not 100% free but there was no policy he could have made that would have gone through that would have stopped it.
                        You said it yourself. Show you a policy. All of Bush's policies were all flawed. He was a conservative put policies in place that failed all over (No Child Left Behind, Bush Doctrine, etc.). He removed policies and kept the law away from keep Wall Street, so they could continue as de-regulated as possible, and the recession was a direct result of that. The recession's root case was financial eggheads with no oversight running the whole show into the ground. Did you see "The Big Short"? People saw the recession coming and made billions for their hedge funds, but somehow the US government had their thumbs up their asses and that was on Bush's watch.

                        You seem to be arguing that Bush's job was to watch the economy burn one way or another and stay out of the way, but that's the opposite of the president's job, which is to take action. Bush did nothing to regulate and protect or prevent the harm that came in his last two years. So, you answered your own question. Bush didn't act when he should have, when everyone else saw the bubble burst coming.

                        And what about his enormous, near-sighted tax cuts? Those tax cuts sure grew the economy! Maybe if he wasn't so focused on giving the wealthy and corporate elite their big tax breaks, he'd have had more time to listen to the economists who were predicting doom. On top of that, just add Bush being as paralyzed during the stock crash as he was on 9/11 and during Katrina. He didn't know what to do, other than what Karl Rove and Dick Cheney were telling him, which was lower taxes, and oh yeah, "faith based initiatives".

                        Bush really did everything to cause not just the market crash, but to not do anything to avoid it, or fix it afterwards. For that, we needed a new president. Thankfully we get that chance every 4-8 years.
                        Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 11/08/2016 2:45pm, .

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                          You said it yourself. Show you a policy. He was a conservative and removed policies and laws to keep Wall Street as de-regulated as possible, and the recession was a direct result of that. You seem to be arguing that Bush's job was to watch the economy burn one way or another. Bush did nothing to regulate and protect or prevent the harm that came in his last two years. So, you answered your own question. Bush didn't act when he should have, when everyone else saw the bubble burst coming.

                          And what about his enormous, near-sighted tax cuts? Those tax cuts sure grew the economy! Maybe if he wasn't so focused on giving the wealthy and corporate elite their big tax breaks, he'd have had more time to listen to the economists who were predicting doom. On top of that, just add Bush being as paralyzed during the stock crash as he was on 9/11 and during Katrina. He didn't know what to do, other than what Karl Rove and Dick Cheney were telling him, which was lower taxes, and oh yeah, "faith based initiatives".

                          Bush really did everything to cause not just the market crash, but to not do anything to avoid it, or fix it afterwards. For that, we needed a new president. Thankfully we get that chance every 4-8 years.
                          So you cant actually point to a policy good to know.

                          What exact polices and laws was he as a president able to actually remove?
                          Other presidents have tried trickle down economics none of them ended with a trillion dollar bubble bursting.
                          Show me where tax cuts caused the bubble.
                          Come on you have to do better than hyperbole around here, back your shit up with actual facts.

                          Was Bush a shitty president sure but you can't blame him for shit he didn't do.
                          The market caused the problems in the market.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            So you cant actually point to a policy good to know.
                            I just pointed to several, but more important the absence of critical policies that should have reigned in spending (he didn't), market chaos (he didn't), and government budget (he didn't). On to of all that, an ultra-expensive, unilateral war policy that ensured the US would pay almost the total cost of the War in Iraq, something that emptied the national coffers.

                            I thought I was the moron in this discussion? Seems there is more than one lurking about...good to know. I nominate you Vice Moron.

                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            What exact polices and laws was he as a president able to actually remove?
                            Other presidents have tried trickle down economics none of them ended with a trillion dollar bubble bursting.
                            Show me where tax cuts caused the bubble.
                            Come on you have to do better than hyperbole around here, back your shit up with actual facts.
                            I think you need to look up "hyperbole", bro and while you're at it, check up on those logic lessons.

                            * Policies he removed? How about policies he didn't give a shit about like regulation because he's a conservative. Sorry, "compassionate conservative". I'm sure he cried over his millions when all those trillions in lost 401k's and pensions evaporated because nobody gave a shit what Wall Street was doing with bundled toxic securities.
                            * Other presidents have tried trickle down economics and it wasn't disastrous? "trickle down economics" have never worked. Reagan's policy there caused a recession and stock losses too.
                            * Show you where the "tax cuts caused the bubble"? Really??? Do we even have time to go over how destructive those tax cuts were? Shutdowns? Sequestration? Oh my.

                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            Was Bush a shitty president sure but you can't blame him for shit he didn't do.
                            The market caused the problems in the market.
                            So the next time the market implosion is pending, or underway, the president should just sit on his thumb like Bush did and ride it out until his replacement gets voted in? Boy am I glad you'll never be president..
                            Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 11/08/2016 3:09pm, .

                            Comment


                              On a personal level, I think the best Bush policy, and the one he'll always be famous for, was his position on putting morons in charge of critical positions, like Mike Brown. According to one insider, the person Bush put in charge of FEMA was " ""An unmitigated, total fucking disaster"", who was forced to resign from his former position as "Judges and Stewards Commissioner" for the International Arabian Horses Association. From there, to national Emergency Management. Why the hell not?

                              In the Bush terms, idiots get key positions, and everyone got a big tax cut like it was Oprah giving out free cars, meanwhile the market was left to ruin itself and Main Street along with it, so that a small few people could make a few more billion. I lost a lot of savings under Bush's policies, so no don't tell me it was Obama's fault or Clinton's. I know when and why I lost what investments I made. My first savings account grew under Clinton, and under Obama I made most of my losses back. Under Bush, I thought it was all over. How much did you lose in 2008? My guess is that it wasn't enough for you to investigate why.
                              Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 11/08/2016 3:21pm, .

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                I just pointed to several,
                                No, you did not, at no point did you say this policy right here and actually pointed to one. You didn't even point to one that he changed or removed. You didn't point to any laws that he removed.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                but more important the absence of critical policies that should have reigned in spending (he didn't)
                                Government spending had NOTHING to do with the market crash. Housing prices were not propped up by government spending.
                                Come on you have to do better than this, you said:
                                The recession is directly tied to Bush
                                You have yet to draw a direct correlation let alone something that was actually causal.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                , market chaos (he didn't),
                                What the fuck was he supposes to do? A VERY big bubble burst!
                                Something he had NO control over.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                and government budget (he didn't).
                                Once again show me where this had an impact on the recession.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                I thought I was the moron in this discussion?
                                You really are you can't even stick to your original point at all.

                                Here is something you should know - Its not the president's job to regulate the market. Do you know that right?
                                We are a capitalist society, not a socialist one.
                                The Government budget had 0 to do with the market crash

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                * Policies he removed? How about policies he didn't give a shit about like regulation because he's a conservative. Sorry, "compassionate conservative".
                                What Policies where those come on get some fucking meat here, what regulations did his administration didn't enforce? Especially regulations that actually caused the market crash.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                * Other presidents have tried trickle down economics and it wasn't disastrous? "trickle down economics" have never worked. Reagan's policy there caused a recession and stock losses too.
                                * Show you where the "tax cuts caused the bubble"? Really??? Do we even have time to go over how destructive those tax cuts were? Shutdowns? Sequestration? Oh my.
                                I am well aware of the issues with trickle down economics, but the problem is they didn't actually cause the crash. The Shutdowns and Sequestrations didn't happen under him.

                                Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
                                So the next time the market implosion is pending, or underway, the president should just sit on his thumb like Bush did and ride it out until his replacement gets voted in? Boy is I glad you'll never be president.
                                Yeah I mean he should have just pressed the button that makes the economy all ok again. WTF did you want him to do.
                                Even in hindsight it's hard to say what the fucking best course of action would have been to take.
                                FUCK people still argue over the policies of the Great Depression as to what helped and what didn't.
                                Calling the recession Bush's fault is silly.
                                The president doesn't have the power to stop one.

                                Comment

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