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Aikido Sucks Month
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Originally posted by goodlun View PostI think what sucks the most is I really want aikido to work, no not the crazy chi bullshit, just the perfect redirecting of opponents with like zero force.
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Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
Second, things change for wrestlers when someone puts their hand directly on our eyes or nose when we are doing an otherwise very high percentage sport technique. Unless we are used to dealing with that, it can take us out of our model. In particular, the Aikido shomenate to the face as practiced by the less dancie-dance schools can be a remarkably effective and brutal technique with which to throw or counter throw someone if the balance gets taken by it. Yamashita from Judo often demonstrated that the best way to achieve kuzushi is to drive the head back putting the opponent on their heels or to drive their head straight down by the most efficient means possible.
Third, if someone takes a shot from too far away, or with their ass/belly button away from their target, leading with their head bending at the waist (Except for a John/Pat Smith low shot single leg properly executed), than this Aikido technique could work, and the shooter would also be a prime target for a knee to the face, a kick to the face, an uppercut, or a submission face/head/neck/spine lock or guillotine or front headlock.
So in the context of "if someone does a lousy shot, it is this easy to take them down because their balance and posture is already off" this technique could work.
And before anyone says no one would shoot that badly, only people who have little or no track record actually doing MMA or Vale Tudo would think that. When fighters get fatigued or tagged with shots, they often have the reflexive if incorrect tendency to take lousy shots with bad posture and from too far way.
Famously some of the more well known BJJ practitioners took some shots like this in well televised matches from too far away and paid for it by either getting knocked out or tagged with some good shots, etc.
I am not Aikidoka, but if I had three lifetimes, I would surely study Aikido, Tai Chi, most sports, and all the arts and sciences.
The Aikido people by and large seem to have good falling skills, good posture, decent footwork, and I would suspect that what they do lowers stress induced negative body chemistry because it seems chill and to promote a positive attitude.
I would also note that if you read the letters from Japan from before World War II, Aikido (called by various names) was reported to have been practiced competitively against Judo in challenge matches, in which in was reported to fare decently, and to be accepted into Aikido training you were supposed to already have had a documented competency in a violent art such as Judo, Sword, or Karate.
I don't know enough about Aikido practice to comment deeply on it, but most of what they demonstrate seems rooted in some principle found in other combat sports.
The founder of Aikido was certainly a showman, cult participant/founder and lets be honest either a bit of a fraud or I don't understand the culture well enough to get it.
His own teacher, however, had a reputation for being a take all comers in a real fight, win or lose, and seems to have probably been a legitimate bad ass, to the point that it was recorded in letters that the founder of Aikido frequently found reason to temporarily leave town if his former teacher was coming for a visit.Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 8/02/2016 6:49am, .
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Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostI am not Aikidoka, but if I had three lifetimes, I would surely study Aikido
Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostThe Aikido people by and large seem to have good falling skills, good posture, decent footwork, and I would suspect that what they do lowers stress induced negative body chemistry because it seems chill and to promote a positive attitude.
Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostI would also note that if you read the letters from Japan from before World War II, Aikido (called by various names) was reported to have been practiced competitively against Judo in challenge matches, in which in was reported to fare decently, and to be accepted into Aikido training you were supposed to already have had a documented competency in a violent art such as Judo, Sword, or Karate.
Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostI don't know enough about Aikido practice to comment deeply on it, but most of what they demonstrate seems rooted in some principle found in other combat sports.
Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostThe founder of Aikido was certainly a showman, cult participant/founder and lets be honest either a bit of a fraud or I don't understand the culture well enough to get it.
Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostHis own teacher, however, had a reputation for being a take all comers in a real fight, win or lose, and seems to have probably been a legitimate bad ass, to the point that it was recorded in letters that the founder of Aikido frequently found reason to temporarily leave town if his former teacher was coming for a visit.
It seems like "good" aikido, when it can be found, is so close to judo that, well, just do judo. It doesn't have the QC issues.
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Originally posted by goodlun View PostI think what sucks the most is I really want aikido to work, no not the crazy chi bullshit, just the perfect redirecting of opponents with like zero force.
I want that shit to be as awesome as it was in Ninjas and Superspies(though that had its fair share of chi awesomeness)
I think people have unrealistic expectations about aikido is a huge part of it's problems. Exacerbated by the "aikido vs tackle" type stuff as posted in this thread, for example.
Anybody who has had a good wrestler work singles/doubles on them knows that simple deflection and grabbing the head won't work. Sure, I can do it to little kid wrestlers and even some low level high school kids, but not a well trained wrestler.
Aikido pretty much suffers from the same thing many "TMA" do...the lack of force on force training and some sort of randori/free sparring leads to unrealistic expectations regarding real-world performance.
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Originally posted by BKR View PostAnybody who has had a good wrestler work singles/doubles on them knows that simple deflection and grabbing the head won't work. Sure, I can do it to little kid wrestlers and even some low level high school kids, but not a well trained wrestler.
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Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View PostFirst, correctly done rotation while going into the shooters shot rather going away from it, as an alternative to countering with a sprawl or down block or front headlock or funk does work in high level wrestling. See Randy Lewis's old wrestling matches for an example of a master of using this approach against other top wrestlers.
Second, things change for wrestlers when someone puts their hand directly on our eyes or nose when we are doing an otherwise very high percentage sport technique. Unless we are used to dealing with that, it can take us out of our model. In particular, the Aikido shomenate to the face as practiced by the less dancie-dance schools can be a remarkably effective and brutal technique with which to throw or counter throw someone if the balance gets taken by it. Yamashita from Judo often demonstrated that the best way to achieve kuzushi is to drive the head back putting the opponent on their heels or to drive their head straight down by the most efficient means possible.
Third, if someone takes a shot from too far away, or with their ass/belly button away from their target, leading with their head bending at the waist (Except for a John/Pat Smith low shot single leg properly executed), than this Aikido technique could work, and the shooter would also be a prime target for a knee to the face, a kick to the face, an uppercut, or a submission face/head/neck/spine lock or guillotine or front headlock.
So in the context of "if someone does a lousy shot, it is this easy to take them down because their balance and posture is already off" this technique could work.
And before anyone says no one would shoot that badly, only people who have little or no track record actually doing MMA or Vale Tudo would think that. When fighters get fatigued or tagged with shots, they often have the reflexive if incorrect tendency to take lousy shots with bad posture and from too far way.
Famously some of the more well known BJJ practitioners took some shots like this in well televised matches from too far away and paid for it by either getting knocked out or tagged with some good shots, etc.
I am not Aikidoka, but if I had three lifetimes, I would surely study Aikido, Tai Chi, most sports, and all the arts and sciences.
The Aikido people by and large seem to have good falling skills, good posture, decent footwork, and I would suspect that what they do lowers stress induced negative body chemistry because it seems chill and to promote a positive attitude.
I would also note that if you read the letters from Japan from before World War II, Aikido (called by various names) was reported to have been practiced competitively against Judo in challenge matches, in which in was reported to fare decently, and to be accepted into Aikido training you were supposed to already have had a documented competency in a violent art such as Judo, Sword, or Karate.
I don't know enough about Aikido practice to comment deeply on it, but most of what they demonstrate seems rooted in some principle found in other combat sports.
The founder of Aikido was certainly a showman, cult participant/founder and lets be honest either a bit of a fraud or I don't understand the culture well enough to get it.
His own teacher, however, had a reputation for being a take all comers in a real fight, win or lose, and seems to have probably been a legitimate bad ass, to the point that it was recorded in letters that the founder of Aikido frequently found reason to temporarily leave town if his former teacher was coming for a visit.
Over on the old Judo Forum, someone had posted some translations of documents that had detailed instructions for aikidoka on how to deal with judoka. Specific techniques and strategies. These were all pre-WW2, obviously.
You may be using the same source(s) I've seen to inform your post here.
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