Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Which Japanese MMA has the most practitioners

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ulsteryank
    replied
    I don't know. I watched that 'Road to UFC: Japan' on Fight Pass and was surprised that virtually none of the fighters came from traditional backgrounds. If you train Kyokushin & Judo, you'd be well versed and able, but it's not exactly MMA, which has become it's on thing. A hybrid style still wouldn't be the same.

    I came from a Shito-ryu background in the late 90s that also did kickboxing and shoot wrestling on the side. We just called it cross training though. I hated Katas, but became familiar wearing the pajamas, bowing, and learning some Japanese terms influenced me to take it as my foreign language in high school, but don't see much point carrying that over into MMA.

    In BJJ we wear a Gi, line up, bow, and say Osu/Oss , so that's more than enough for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • BJMills
    replied
    I think streetcat hit it in the head. Shorinji Kempo probably fits all of ghostzdog's criteria.

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    I disagree on the MMA places being more brutish- Japan is somewhat notorious for its hazing culture, among sports and martial arts. Things like sumo, judo, kendo, shootfighting etc in Japan. Have you seen the vid of Sotoru Sayama's gym, where he's screaming and beating the shit out of his students and they take it diligently? Hierarchical bullshit is popular in Japan, I hear, and that environment can be a place for assholes to thrive. Not to say thay its common but its as reasonable as calling out American MMA schools as brutish.
    You forgot Aikido, I have seen a lot of people that confuse instructors for being brutal for being effective.

    Leave a comment:


  • Permalost
    replied
    I disagree on the MMA places being more brutish- Japan is somewhat notorious for its hazing culture, among sports and martial arts. Things like sumo, judo, kendo, shootfighting etc in Japan. Have you seen the vid of Sotoru Sayama's gym, where he's screaming and beating the shit out of his students and they take it diligently? Hierarchical bullshit is popular in Japan, I hear, and that environment can be a place for assholes to thrive. Not to say thay its common but its as reasonable as calling out American MMA schools as brutish.

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetcat
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    Recently, i discovered that a number of Japanese martial art practitioners (mostly Japanese Knockdown Karate and Judo practitioners) have developed MMA styles that are very "Japanese" in nature.

    I figured that what these guys have created must have appeal to a percentage of the MMA community. Some that have come from Japanese styles originally, such as Judo or Karate / or both.
    Who want to learn / test out their skills in a more real situation
    Some guys who also may be attracted to the effectiveness and reality of MMA, but who are more philosophical and spiritual in nature who may not like the modern attitude that is seen with some of the more aggressive MMA people.

    Nonetheless, when I discovered one of the first Japanese Judo / Karate combo's, I was quiet interested.
    However, the more I look, the more other styles I find.

    The first style I found was Kudo Daido Juku. Then the other day I also discovered Nippon Kempo, which looked similar. After reading one of the bullshido boards, I just found another style that I wasn't aware of called Enshin, which again looks similar to these both.

    I was wondering if any one who is experienced in these styles could let me know of any other Japanese styles that also are similar in nature, in that they combine Karate striking with Judo throws and sweeps (and maybe even ne-waza). And also give me an idea as to which is the most popular (so I know which one has the best competitions).
    I also wonder what the differences are between safety equipment. I.E. which styles uses what safety kit.

    I was also wondering as to whether there are any instructional books / dvd's on these martial arts. As I have not been able to find any online.

    I also understand that there are loads of other styles that are not Japanese that are again also similar, such as SanShou and Combat Sambo etc.

    Grateful for any help.
    Kind regards

    Justin
    In answer to your question, I think Shorinji Kenpo (Doshin So) would be a good fit for you. It has a large following but mostly in major metro areas. It is based mostly on a Buddhist philosophy and seeks, through training, the betterment of the human race. I checked them out when I lived in NYC...It wasn't for me at the time but they practice a mix of effective techniques including ground work.

    Aikido, which I have a little experience in, may not suit you. Quite a few dojos have left the realm of reality and altered the art
    to conform with their interpretation of what the founder envisioned. Additionally, I'm not certain Omoto would be considered a mainstream or traditional practice.

    Leave a comment:


  • BackFistMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Lanner Hunt View Post
    ghostzdog, Simmer down now.

    Okay, look. I have spent years studying Japanese religion, history, and culture, both during my college years (I have a BA in Japanese Language and History) and continuing well into my non-Japan-related career path. So I appreciate that you are showing a genuine interest in Japan and its religion, and history, and culture. I really, genuinely appreciate that. Once again, and this ins't me being angry or forceful, you are oversimplifying, and your views are a slippery slope toward Bodhi Sanders and his ilk. Please read the following as a few objective facts stated without ill-intent, and with the hope that it will cultivate your interest in these matters in a productive way.

    1) It's cool you have an interest in Japanese spiritualism. You need to understand, however, that, despite what the super chill long-haired Aikido teacher will tell you, Japanese spirituality and spirituality in Japan is a TREMENDOUSLY complicated subject. If you want a detailed discussion of Japanese spirituality, cool, I am absolutely game. But I caution you, it's not going to end with, "And that's why the Japanese are better and more peaceful and more at one with themselves, maaaan....". It's going to end with a treatise about the importance to the Japanese of convention and ritual as opposed to the metaphysical. To put it bluntly, Japanese religion and spirituality isn't just replacing Christian and Jewish values with those of Shinto and Jodo Shinshu. It's just far more complicated. A single paragraph here wouldn't even do justice to the differences between Japanese and European spirituality.

    2) You talk about how you prefer Japanese schools as less aggressive. Before you say that, you need to understand that Japanese society is hyper-conformist and competition oriented. This leads to a massive subculture of bullying and a regressive and repressed society. If you ever go to Japan (and speaking Japanese helps, so you can understand the passive aggressive diatribe), watch an elementary school level judo or kendo tournament. There will be tears, there will be screaming by coaches, and there will be clear and unadulterated smugness and senses of superiority by both certain students and coaches. This is because these elements parallel Japanese society after school: a survival of the fittest world (you literally have to test to get into a renowned high school after all) where society forcefully shoves you into a prescribed roll. Saying, "Japanese martial arts are just so cultured and so much less aggressive" is wrong, and, once again, oversimplifying.

    3) If you want a purely spiritual martial art that comes from Japan, well, I hate to break it to you, it isn't karate, it isn't judo, it isn't jujitsu... it's aikido. Aikido is basically the only martial art from Japan that is legitimately and purposely founded on and defined by spiritual terms. In this case, those terms are in line with a Shinto cult that the founder was a part of. I'm not being facetious; if you want a spiritual martial art, aikido is the only one that literally fits the definition.

    I appreciate that you have a bent toward Japanese martial arts. I just think you need to slow down and start looking at things objectively and free of the fetishization of the idea of the "OTHER (more spiritual, more centered, more ideal, more etc.) culture".
    Wow.

    That was a very even handed and level headed and informative post, one of best I have seen on this topic.

    Nioce.

    Errent did it better tho


    *edit*
    Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Aren't you guys glad that I convinced Phrost to abolish the probation period for new members?
    I personally approved his thread actually.

    Leave a comment:


  • Holy Moment
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
    I have been very objective.
    If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
    No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
    Aren't you guys glad that I convinced Phrost to abolish the probation period for new members?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lanner Hunt
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
    I have been very objective.
    If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
    No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
    ghostzdog, Simmer down now.

    Okay, look. I have spent years studying Japanese religion, history, and culture, both during my college years (I have a BA in Japanese Language and History) and continuing well into my non-Japan-related career path. So I appreciate that you are showing a genuine interest in Japan and its religion, and history, and culture. I really, genuinely appreciate that. Once again, and this ins't me being angry or forceful, you are oversimplifying, and your views are a slippery slope toward Bodhi Sanders and his ilk. Please read the following as a few objective facts stated without ill-intent, and with the hope that it will cultivate your interest in these matters in a productive way.

    1) It's cool you have an interest in Japanese spiritualism. You need to understand, however, that, despite what the super chill long-haired Aikido teacher will tell you, Japanese spirituality and spirituality in Japan is a TREMENDOUSLY complicated subject. If you want a detailed discussion of Japanese spirituality, cool, I am absolutely game. But I caution you, it's not going to end with, "And that's why the Japanese are better and more peaceful and more at one with themselves, maaaan....". It's going to end with a treatise about the importance to the Japanese of convention and ritual as opposed to the metaphysical. To put it bluntly, Japanese religion and spirituality isn't just replacing Christian and Jewish values with those of Shinto and Jodo Shinshu. It's just far more complicated. A single paragraph here wouldn't even do justice to the differences between Japanese and European spirituality.

    2) You talk about how you prefer Japanese schools as less aggressive. Before you say that, you need to understand that Japanese society is hyper-conformist and competition oriented. This leads to a massive subculture of bullying and a regressive and repressed society. If you ever go to Japan (and speaking Japanese helps, so you can understand the passive aggressive diatribe), watch an elementary school level judo or kendo tournament. There will be tears, there will be screaming by coaches, and there will be clear and unadulterated smugness and senses of superiority by both certain students and coaches. This is because these elements parallel Japanese society after school: a survival of the fittest world (you literally have to test to get into a renowned high school after all) where society forcefully shoves you into a prescribed roll. Saying, "Japanese martial arts are just so cultured and so much less aggressive" is wrong, and, once again, oversimplifying.

    3) If you want a purely spiritual martial art that comes from Japan, well, I hate to break it to you, it isn't karate, it isn't judo, it isn't jujitsu... it's aikido. Aikido is basically the only martial art from Japan that is legitimately and purposely founded on and defined by spiritual terms. In this case, those terms are in line with a Shinto cult that the founder was a part of. I'm not being facetious; if you want a spiritual martial art, aikido is the only one that literally fits the definition.

    I appreciate that you have a bent toward Japanese martial arts. I just think you need to slow down and start looking at things objectively and free of the fetishization of the idea of the "OTHER (more spiritual, more centered, more ideal, more etc.) culture".

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    A whole bunch of none sense.
    This site is all about telling the truth.
    You are telling me you found BJJ in the UK in the 90s?
    Really who where you training with then?
    Also where were you training "MMA" in the late 90s?
    What sort of "MMA" style where you training?

    Leave a comment:


  • ChenPengFi
    replied
    I would be remiss by not mentioning Enson Inoue, he is Yamato Damashii after all.



    They will probably(lol) kick the shit out of you though. The brothers have a reputation of running tough gyms.




    He even speaks English and can get all spiritual on you.


    Leave a comment:


  • ghostdzog
    replied
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    sigh, what is exactly your experience level with Judo at this point?"

    I teach Judo on a weekly basis. But also grew up doing several striking martial arts. From the early 80s. Training in various martial arts over the years including BJJ/MMA during the late 90's.
    But do not see myself as a martial art expert or top MMA fighter, partly because I am now getting too old (40). But also because I am a multi-faceted type of guy, with an interest more than training. Interests include reading, cycling, going to the movies, and producing music. :-)

    "I think you can study Eastern philosophy on its own with out having to mix in the martial arts. If your martial arts are shoving philosophy down your throat then its likely a bullshit martial art."

    The philosophy doesn't influence its effectiveness. But it does stop people from turning into criminals and doing criminal acts. It also can protect the innocent and look after the weak. This, from what I understand, is what Jiu Jutsu is all about. Helio Gracie, if you remember, started when he was too ill and weak to train.

    Gracie Barra have a philosophical base.

    I think if you can find a school that teaches what you want to learn with people you like, then great.
    I think personally think that enjoying training in the long term is about a balance between all these three.
    In the past I have trained at clubs where people are people who I don't want to spend time with.

    As I grew older, I thought, why bother. as I was paying to train with people who i didn't like.
    After all its about quality of life.
    If you can find an effective martial art that teaches how you want it to be taught (with or without philosophy) with people that you like, then awesome.

    "Why the fuck are you even talking about un-trained opponents?
    Seriously do you think that if you can beat trained opponents that untrained ones are going to some how give you more trouble?"

    In my experience, Untrained (non grappling) opponents move differently to guys who are expert at Judo/jiu jitsu.
    Also, crazy violent drunks are often more dangerous than someone from your Judo club turning on you if all you know is Judo.

    If all you know is Judo and some crazy "un-trained" striker starts trying to punch your face in. he makes you step out of the Judo randori or jiu jitsu rolling zone, and if you are not used to some crazy bastard trying to take your head off with hay makers and pseudo boxing moves, you may very well get a kicking by a someone who is clueless but can go crazy. especially if you also have had a skin full of beer. (in my experience beer never enhances anyones ability to fight, including so called "drunken masters").

    untrained people move differently and also they don't play to the rules. 2 important differences to fighting in a grappling club where all you do is grappling.
    "
    Unlikely since the two don't really intersect with each other.
    Learning to fight is learning to fight.
    Learning philosophy is learning philosophy.
    I sugest if you want to learn to fight go learn to fight and learn the other bull crap somewhere else.
    It sound to me like you REALLY want to learn MMA but for some fucking reason are not willing to just go to MMA.
    "
    Sure, some physical techniques and methods of training are more effective than others.
    Some are less effective. Although it is debatable as to whether it is the martial arts training that is useful for self defence or the way some prepare themselves for self defence.
    See people like Geoff Thompson.

    Personally, (and this is not negative regarding the way you train) the way a person trains physical techniques really helps them react physically in a self defence situation.
    however, the mind / psychology also needs to be trained. If you neglect the mental prep, and get into fights, especially if intoxicated, you could end up a little shocked.
    I guess that is why the Gracie's do not drink / take drugs, as they would leave themselves vulnerable.

    If the techniques are the same, then who cares what philosophy the martial artists prescribes to unless it incites that person to treat another people with prejudice.
    From what I have read, I believe the Gracie Family also follow a kind of spiritual philosophy that is similar to the Japanese. I don't think they have a problem with
    people being philosophical, spiritual or japanese. Why should any of their students. What harm is it causing? especially if the techniques are the same. No offence.


    Obviously you have the internet how about you use that to figure it out.
    I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
    I have been very objective.
    If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
    No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
    Last edited by ghostdzog; 6/19/2016 6:01pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • Kovacs
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    no worries mate. I would say that I personally prefer martial arts that also have a philosophy base, as otherwise, when things go too far towards the western sport ideals,
    is that some of the less grounded practitioners get very egotistical and aggressive/materialistic, which I personally don't want to develop, even if I have people around me that I can beat with my eyes closed. but what does that prove, if i boast that i beat x amount of people who are massively inferior to me. apart from what an ass I am.

    That, I guess is why I still like the Japanese / Buddhist philosophy and less into the "tough guy" attitude. Makes me happy long term I guess. Thanks for your reply. :- ) I wish you well.
    Obviously it's your shout but I've never understood people that avoid gyms for being too aggressive. I avoided gyms that weren't aggressive enough, why? Becouse you're training to fight, ie beat or bend someone into submission wether that be them running away, losing conscioucness or being too broken to continue.

    We can dress up fighting with spirituality or philosophy but at the end of the day it's about smashing dudes and those that grasp this fact are usually better at it.

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    Think of all the people who have grown up and trained in japanese styles for example. Who love the japanese tradition, philosophy, etiquette and "way" who, like myself, have realised that MMA is more effective. So, who want to train MMA in terms of physical techniques but also want to retain the other aspects of the Japanese arts.
    I assure you that you are in the minority, hell even Judo isn't taught with "philosophy" there is some dojo savoir faire but virtually ever art has some form of this.
    You keep talking about "techniques" what the fuck?

    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post

    BTW. I have trained in MMA, I actually started training MMA in the early 90s. Before most people even knew what the hell MMA meant. Goodness, in those days if someone did Karate and Judo. it was fairly unusual.
    Bullshit, first of all training in two different styles doesn't mean training in MMA, also PLENTY of people trained in both Karate and Judo. It was very common.
    In the 90s you wouldn't be training "MMA".
    Also your post show that you lack any concept of any expert level of training in any single art let alone a combination of them.

    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    I have trained at MMA clubs since, during the start of the millennium. And although I have to say that enjoyed what I did, I have to say that SOME of the people attracted to MMA
    were of the worst sought. SOME people who enjoyed damaging their training partners when drilling techniques or rolling, and some who were also known violent trouble makers / door men.
    This shows you have never training in an MMA gym, that you have never experienced the fraternal bond that happens in one.

    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post

    Personally I want to train effectively but also follow a spiritual path. I respect that the spiritual path isn't for everyone, and I respect that. But at the same point. please respect the beliefs of others.
    As although what you train in is perhaps brilliant or even superior, you have to respect the wishes of other people.
    No I don't have to have respect, respect is earned.
    Also you mention Judo but Judo has nothing to do with spirituality Kano was interested in science and rationalism.

    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    No offence. There is no reason why we have to fall out on this issue. the issue isn't the technique or the effectiveness of the technique but what type of club one person prefers.
    Thats all it is. Really no reason to start a fight. Thanks for your advice otherwise.
    Believe me you cannot offend me its the internet.
    The fact you keep pointing to technique shows you don't know shit about marital arts.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChenPengFi
    replied
    Originally posted by Kovacs View Post
    That's the best bit. People are getting absolutely destroyed and the crowd are politely clapping as if they're watching a North Korean musical.
    I guess when you consider popular culture there, even going back quite some time, that's probably less bloody than what their kids were watching over breakfast.


    Leave a comment:


  • Holy Moment
    replied

    Leave a comment:

Collapse

Edit this module to specify a template to display.

Working...
X