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    #31
    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
    A whole bunch of none sense.
    This site is all about telling the truth.
    You are telling me you found BJJ in the UK in the 90s?
    Really who where you training with then?
    Also where were you training "MMA" in the late 90s?
    What sort of "MMA" style where you training?

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
      I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
      I have been very objective.
      If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
      No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
      ghostzdog, Simmer down now.

      Okay, look. I have spent years studying Japanese religion, history, and culture, both during my college years (I have a BA in Japanese Language and History) and continuing well into my non-Japan-related career path. So I appreciate that you are showing a genuine interest in Japan and its religion, and history, and culture. I really, genuinely appreciate that. Once again, and this ins't me being angry or forceful, you are oversimplifying, and your views are a slippery slope toward Bodhi Sanders and his ilk. Please read the following as a few objective facts stated without ill-intent, and with the hope that it will cultivate your interest in these matters in a productive way.

      1) It's cool you have an interest in Japanese spiritualism. You need to understand, however, that, despite what the super chill long-haired Aikido teacher will tell you, Japanese spirituality and spirituality in Japan is a TREMENDOUSLY complicated subject. If you want a detailed discussion of Japanese spirituality, cool, I am absolutely game. But I caution you, it's not going to end with, "And that's why the Japanese are better and more peaceful and more at one with themselves, maaaan....". It's going to end with a treatise about the importance to the Japanese of convention and ritual as opposed to the metaphysical. To put it bluntly, Japanese religion and spirituality isn't just replacing Christian and Jewish values with those of Shinto and Jodo Shinshu. It's just far more complicated. A single paragraph here wouldn't even do justice to the differences between Japanese and European spirituality.

      2) You talk about how you prefer Japanese schools as less aggressive. Before you say that, you need to understand that Japanese society is hyper-conformist and competition oriented. This leads to a massive subculture of bullying and a regressive and repressed society. If you ever go to Japan (and speaking Japanese helps, so you can understand the passive aggressive diatribe), watch an elementary school level judo or kendo tournament. There will be tears, there will be screaming by coaches, and there will be clear and unadulterated smugness and senses of superiority by both certain students and coaches. This is because these elements parallel Japanese society after school: a survival of the fittest world (you literally have to test to get into a renowned high school after all) where society forcefully shoves you into a prescribed roll. Saying, "Japanese martial arts are just so cultured and so much less aggressive" is wrong, and, once again, oversimplifying.

      3) If you want a purely spiritual martial art that comes from Japan, well, I hate to break it to you, it isn't karate, it isn't judo, it isn't jujitsu... it's aikido. Aikido is basically the only martial art from Japan that is legitimately and purposely founded on and defined by spiritual terms. In this case, those terms are in line with a Shinto cult that the founder was a part of. I'm not being facetious; if you want a spiritual martial art, aikido is the only one that literally fits the definition.

      I appreciate that you have a bent toward Japanese martial arts. I just think you need to slow down and start looking at things objectively and free of the fetishization of the idea of the "OTHER (more spiritual, more centered, more ideal, more etc.) culture".

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
        I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
        I have been very objective.
        If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
        No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
        Aren't you guys glad that I convinced Phrost to abolish the probation period for new members?

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Lanner Hunt View Post
          ghostzdog, Simmer down now.

          Okay, look. I have spent years studying Japanese religion, history, and culture, both during my college years (I have a BA in Japanese Language and History) and continuing well into my non-Japan-related career path. So I appreciate that you are showing a genuine interest in Japan and its religion, and history, and culture. I really, genuinely appreciate that. Once again, and this ins't me being angry or forceful, you are oversimplifying, and your views are a slippery slope toward Bodhi Sanders and his ilk. Please read the following as a few objective facts stated without ill-intent, and with the hope that it will cultivate your interest in these matters in a productive way.

          1) It's cool you have an interest in Japanese spiritualism. You need to understand, however, that, despite what the super chill long-haired Aikido teacher will tell you, Japanese spirituality and spirituality in Japan is a TREMENDOUSLY complicated subject. If you want a detailed discussion of Japanese spirituality, cool, I am absolutely game. But I caution you, it's not going to end with, "And that's why the Japanese are better and more peaceful and more at one with themselves, maaaan....". It's going to end with a treatise about the importance to the Japanese of convention and ritual as opposed to the metaphysical. To put it bluntly, Japanese religion and spirituality isn't just replacing Christian and Jewish values with those of Shinto and Jodo Shinshu. It's just far more complicated. A single paragraph here wouldn't even do justice to the differences between Japanese and European spirituality.

          2) You talk about how you prefer Japanese schools as less aggressive. Before you say that, you need to understand that Japanese society is hyper-conformist and competition oriented. This leads to a massive subculture of bullying and a regressive and repressed society. If you ever go to Japan (and speaking Japanese helps, so you can understand the passive aggressive diatribe), watch an elementary school level judo or kendo tournament. There will be tears, there will be screaming by coaches, and there will be clear and unadulterated smugness and senses of superiority by both certain students and coaches. This is because these elements parallel Japanese society after school: a survival of the fittest world (you literally have to test to get into a renowned high school after all) where society forcefully shoves you into a prescribed roll. Saying, "Japanese martial arts are just so cultured and so much less aggressive" is wrong, and, once again, oversimplifying.

          3) If you want a purely spiritual martial art that comes from Japan, well, I hate to break it to you, it isn't karate, it isn't judo, it isn't jujitsu... it's aikido. Aikido is basically the only martial art from Japan that is legitimately and purposely founded on and defined by spiritual terms. In this case, those terms are in line with a Shinto cult that the founder was a part of. I'm not being facetious; if you want a spiritual martial art, aikido is the only one that literally fits the definition.

          I appreciate that you have a bent toward Japanese martial arts. I just think you need to slow down and start looking at things objectively and free of the fetishization of the idea of the "OTHER (more spiritual, more centered, more ideal, more etc.) culture".
          Wow.

          That was a very even handed and level headed and informative post, one of best I have seen on this topic.

          Nioce.

          Errent did it better tho


          *edit*
          Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
          Aren't you guys glad that I convinced Phrost to abolish the probation period for new members?
          I personally approved his thread actually.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
            Recently, i discovered that a number of Japanese martial art practitioners (mostly Japanese Knockdown Karate and Judo practitioners) have developed MMA styles that are very "Japanese" in nature.

            I figured that what these guys have created must have appeal to a percentage of the MMA community. Some that have come from Japanese styles originally, such as Judo or Karate / or both.
            Who want to learn / test out their skills in a more real situation
            Some guys who also may be attracted to the effectiveness and reality of MMA, but who are more philosophical and spiritual in nature who may not like the modern attitude that is seen with some of the more aggressive MMA people.

            Nonetheless, when I discovered one of the first Japanese Judo / Karate combo's, I was quiet interested.
            However, the more I look, the more other styles I find.

            The first style I found was Kudo Daido Juku. Then the other day I also discovered Nippon Kempo, which looked similar. After reading one of the bullshido boards, I just found another style that I wasn't aware of called Enshin, which again looks similar to these both.

            I was wondering if any one who is experienced in these styles could let me know of any other Japanese styles that also are similar in nature, in that they combine Karate striking with Judo throws and sweeps (and maybe even ne-waza). And also give me an idea as to which is the most popular (so I know which one has the best competitions).
            I also wonder what the differences are between safety equipment. I.E. which styles uses what safety kit.

            I was also wondering as to whether there are any instructional books / dvd's on these martial arts. As I have not been able to find any online.

            I also understand that there are loads of other styles that are not Japanese that are again also similar, such as SanShou and Combat Sambo etc.

            Grateful for any help.
            Kind regards

            Justin
            In answer to your question, I think Shorinji Kenpo (Doshin So) would be a good fit for you. It has a large following but mostly in major metro areas. It is based mostly on a Buddhist philosophy and seeks, through training, the betterment of the human race. I checked them out when I lived in NYC...It wasn't for me at the time but they practice a mix of effective techniques including ground work.

            Aikido, which I have a little experience in, may not suit you. Quite a few dojos have left the realm of reality and altered the art
            to conform with their interpretation of what the founder envisioned. Additionally, I'm not certain Omoto would be considered a mainstream or traditional practice.

            Comment


              #36
              I disagree on the MMA places being more brutish- Japan is somewhat notorious for its hazing culture, among sports and martial arts. Things like sumo, judo, kendo, shootfighting etc in Japan. Have you seen the vid of Sotoru Sayama's gym, where he's screaming and beating the shit out of his students and they take it diligently? Hierarchical bullshit is popular in Japan, I hear, and that environment can be a place for assholes to thrive. Not to say thay its common but its as reasonable as calling out American MMA schools as brutish.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                I disagree on the MMA places being more brutish- Japan is somewhat notorious for its hazing culture, among sports and martial arts. Things like sumo, judo, kendo, shootfighting etc in Japan. Have you seen the vid of Sotoru Sayama's gym, where he's screaming and beating the shit out of his students and they take it diligently? Hierarchical bullshit is popular in Japan, I hear, and that environment can be a place for assholes to thrive. Not to say thay its common but its as reasonable as calling out American MMA schools as brutish.
                You forgot Aikido, I have seen a lot of people that confuse instructors for being brutal for being effective.

                Comment


                  #38
                  I think streetcat hit it in the head. Shorinji Kempo probably fits all of ghostzdog's criteria.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I don't know. I watched that 'Road to UFC: Japan' on Fight Pass and was surprised that virtually none of the fighters came from traditional backgrounds. If you train Kyokushin & Judo, you'd be well versed and able, but it's not exactly MMA, which has become it's on thing. A hybrid style still wouldn't be the same.

                    I came from a Shito-ryu background in the late 90s that also did kickboxing and shoot wrestling on the side. We just called it cross training though. I hated Katas, but became familiar wearing the pajamas, bowing, and learning some Japanese terms influenced me to take it as my foreign language in high school, but don't see much point carrying that over into MMA.

                    In BJJ we wear a Gi, line up, bow, and say Osu/Oss , so that's more than enough for me.

                    Comment

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