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    #16
    Originally posted by Lanner Hunt View Post
    Oh no, I didn't mean to sound like I was offended. I'm not!

    My main point was, there are more to Japanese arts than their 'Japanese-ness'. I get from subsequent posts that you more or less understand that, so I apologize if I sounded strong or forceful.
    no worries mate. I would say that I personally prefer martial arts that also have a philosophy base, as otherwise, when things go too far towards the western sport ideals,
    is that some of the less grounded practitioners get very egotistical and aggressive/materialistic, which I personally don't want to develop, even if I have people around me that I can beat with my eyes closed. but what does that prove, if i boast that i beat x amount of people who are massively inferior to me. apart from what an ass I am.

    That, I guess is why I still like the Japanese / Buddhist philosophy and less into the "tough guy" attitude. Makes me happy long term I guess. Thanks for your reply. :- ) I wish you well.

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      #17
      Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
      no. I am interested in self defence as well as Judo sport.

      But also with Eastern philosophy.

      I don't think my interests are that rare. I am alike a lot of the traditional budo martial arts in that i like all the philosophy,
      tradition and etiquette
      Then you should look into Koryu schools. Judo, Karate and their derivatives or combinations are products not of traditional japanese culture but, for the most part, late 19th to mid 20th century Japan. They are invented traditions.

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        #18
        Originally posted by DCS View Post
        Then you should look into Koryu schools. Judo, Karate and their derivatives or combinations are products not of traditional japanese culture but, for the most part, late 19th to mid 20th century Japan. They are invented traditions.

        That's what I was thinking.
        Also "western sports ideals" as an undesirable thing in an MMA, Judo, Kyokushin etc context seems odd.

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          #19
          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
          think that was probably san shou / sanda
          I'm pretty sure he knows what those look like...

          How old are you?

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            #20
            [QUOTE=goodlun;2890894]sigh, what is exactly your experience level with Judo at this point?

            Think of all the people who have grown up and trained in japanese styles for example. Who love the japanese tradition, philosophy, etiquette and "way" who, like myself, have realised that MMA is more effective. So, who want to train MMA in terms of physical techniques but also want to retain the other aspects of the Japanese arts.

            So, why not?

            BTW. I have trained in MMA, I actually started training MMA in the early 90s. Before most people even knew what the hell MMA meant. Goodness, in those days if someone did Karate and Judo. it was fairly unusual.

            I have trained at MMA clubs since, during the start of the millennium. And although I have to say that enjoyed what I did, I have to say that SOME of the people attracted to MMA
            were of the worst sought. SOME people who enjoyed damaging their training partners when drilling techniques or rolling, and some who were also known violent trouble makers / door men.

            Personally I want to train effectively but also follow a spiritual path. I respect that the spiritual path isn't for everyone, and I respect that. But at the same point. please respect the beliefs of others.
            As although what you train in is perhaps brilliant or even superior, you have to respect the wishes of other people.

            No offence. There is no reason why we have to fall out on this issue. the issue isn't the technique or the effectiveness of the technique but what type of club one person prefers.
            Thats all it is. Really no reason to start a fight. Thanks for your advice otherwise.

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              #21
              Originally posted by DCS View Post
              Then you should look into Koryu schools. Judo, Karate and their derivatives or combinations are products not of traditional japanese culture but, for the most part, late 19th to mid 20th century Japan. They are invented traditions.
              thanks/

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                #22
                Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                ^that's the one.
                Interesting to note is that a lot of early Shooto fighters seemed to hit like pussies. Like they trained point karate but didn't know how to put power into their strikes.

                Their Streetmission games were usually pretty good, though.

                http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTA5MjkxODY4.html

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                  #23
                  By the way, aren't you guys glad that I convinced Phrost to abolish the probation period for new members?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
                    LOL, exactly.
                    There's all this crazy shit going on in the ring and all around the arena and they look like a video game audience.

                    That and freak show mismatches.
                    That's the best bit. People are getting absolutely destroyed and the crowd are politely clapping as if they're watching a North Korean musical.

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                      #25

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Kovacs View Post
                        That's the best bit. People are getting absolutely destroyed and the crowd are politely clapping as if they're watching a North Korean musical.
                        I guess when you consider popular culture there, even going back quite some time, that's probably less bloody than what their kids were watching over breakfast.


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                          #27
                          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                          Think of all the people who have grown up and trained in japanese styles for example. Who love the japanese tradition, philosophy, etiquette and "way" who, like myself, have realised that MMA is more effective. So, who want to train MMA in terms of physical techniques but also want to retain the other aspects of the Japanese arts.
                          I assure you that you are in the minority, hell even Judo isn't taught with "philosophy" there is some dojo savoir faire but virtually ever art has some form of this.
                          You keep talking about "techniques" what the fuck?

                          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post

                          BTW. I have trained in MMA, I actually started training MMA in the early 90s. Before most people even knew what the hell MMA meant. Goodness, in those days if someone did Karate and Judo. it was fairly unusual.
                          Bullshit, first of all training in two different styles doesn't mean training in MMA, also PLENTY of people trained in both Karate and Judo. It was very common.
                          In the 90s you wouldn't be training "MMA".
                          Also your post show that you lack any concept of any expert level of training in any single art let alone a combination of them.

                          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                          I have trained at MMA clubs since, during the start of the millennium. And although I have to say that enjoyed what I did, I have to say that SOME of the people attracted to MMA
                          were of the worst sought. SOME people who enjoyed damaging their training partners when drilling techniques or rolling, and some who were also known violent trouble makers / door men.
                          This shows you have never training in an MMA gym, that you have never experienced the fraternal bond that happens in one.

                          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post

                          Personally I want to train effectively but also follow a spiritual path. I respect that the spiritual path isn't for everyone, and I respect that. But at the same point. please respect the beliefs of others.
                          As although what you train in is perhaps brilliant or even superior, you have to respect the wishes of other people.
                          No I don't have to have respect, respect is earned.
                          Also you mention Judo but Judo has nothing to do with spirituality Kano was interested in science and rationalism.

                          Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                          No offence. There is no reason why we have to fall out on this issue. the issue isn't the technique or the effectiveness of the technique but what type of club one person prefers.
                          Thats all it is. Really no reason to start a fight. Thanks for your advice otherwise.
                          Believe me you cannot offend me its the internet.
                          The fact you keep pointing to technique shows you don't know shit about marital arts.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                            no worries mate. I would say that I personally prefer martial arts that also have a philosophy base, as otherwise, when things go too far towards the western sport ideals,
                            is that some of the less grounded practitioners get very egotistical and aggressive/materialistic, which I personally don't want to develop, even if I have people around me that I can beat with my eyes closed. but what does that prove, if i boast that i beat x amount of people who are massively inferior to me. apart from what an ass I am.

                            That, I guess is why I still like the Japanese / Buddhist philosophy and less into the "tough guy" attitude. Makes me happy long term I guess. Thanks for your reply. :- ) I wish you well.
                            Obviously it's your shout but I've never understood people that avoid gyms for being too aggressive. I avoided gyms that weren't aggressive enough, why? Becouse you're training to fight, ie beat or bend someone into submission wether that be them running away, losing conscioucness or being too broken to continue.

                            We can dress up fighting with spirituality or philosophy but at the end of the day it's about smashing dudes and those that grasp this fact are usually better at it.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                              sigh, what is exactly your experience level with Judo at this point?"

                              I teach Judo on a weekly basis. But also grew up doing several striking martial arts. From the early 80s. Training in various martial arts over the years including BJJ/MMA during the late 90's.
                              But do not see myself as a martial art expert or top MMA fighter, partly because I am now getting too old (40). But also because I am a multi-faceted type of guy, with an interest more than training. Interests include reading, cycling, going to the movies, and producing music. :-)

                              "I think you can study Eastern philosophy on its own with out having to mix in the martial arts. If your martial arts are shoving philosophy down your throat then its likely a bullshit martial art."

                              The philosophy doesn't influence its effectiveness. But it does stop people from turning into criminals and doing criminal acts. It also can protect the innocent and look after the weak. This, from what I understand, is what Jiu Jutsu is all about. Helio Gracie, if you remember, started when he was too ill and weak to train.

                              Gracie Barra have a philosophical base.

                              I think if you can find a school that teaches what you want to learn with people you like, then great.
                              I think personally think that enjoying training in the long term is about a balance between all these three.
                              In the past I have trained at clubs where people are people who I don't want to spend time with.

                              As I grew older, I thought, why bother. as I was paying to train with people who i didn't like.
                              After all its about quality of life.
                              If you can find an effective martial art that teaches how you want it to be taught (with or without philosophy) with people that you like, then awesome.

                              "Why the fuck are you even talking about un-trained opponents?
                              Seriously do you think that if you can beat trained opponents that untrained ones are going to some how give you more trouble?"

                              In my experience, Untrained (non grappling) opponents move differently to guys who are expert at Judo/jiu jitsu.
                              Also, crazy violent drunks are often more dangerous than someone from your Judo club turning on you if all you know is Judo.

                              If all you know is Judo and some crazy "un-trained" striker starts trying to punch your face in. he makes you step out of the Judo randori or jiu jitsu rolling zone, and if you are not used to some crazy bastard trying to take your head off with hay makers and pseudo boxing moves, you may very well get a kicking by a someone who is clueless but can go crazy. especially if you also have had a skin full of beer. (in my experience beer never enhances anyones ability to fight, including so called "drunken masters").

                              untrained people move differently and also they don't play to the rules. 2 important differences to fighting in a grappling club where all you do is grappling.
                              "
                              Unlikely since the two don't really intersect with each other.
                              Learning to fight is learning to fight.
                              Learning philosophy is learning philosophy.
                              I sugest if you want to learn to fight go learn to fight and learn the other bull crap somewhere else.
                              It sound to me like you REALLY want to learn MMA but for some fucking reason are not willing to just go to MMA.
                              "
                              Sure, some physical techniques and methods of training are more effective than others.
                              Some are less effective. Although it is debatable as to whether it is the martial arts training that is useful for self defence or the way some prepare themselves for self defence.
                              See people like Geoff Thompson.

                              Personally, (and this is not negative regarding the way you train) the way a person trains physical techniques really helps them react physically in a self defence situation.
                              however, the mind / psychology also needs to be trained. If you neglect the mental prep, and get into fights, especially if intoxicated, you could end up a little shocked.
                              I guess that is why the Gracie's do not drink / take drugs, as they would leave themselves vulnerable.

                              If the techniques are the same, then who cares what philosophy the martial artists prescribes to unless it incites that person to treat another people with prejudice.
                              From what I have read, I believe the Gracie Family also follow a kind of spiritual philosophy that is similar to the Japanese. I don't think they have a problem with
                              people being philosophical, spiritual or japanese. Why should any of their students. What harm is it causing? especially if the techniques are the same. No offence.


                              Obviously you have the internet how about you use that to figure it out.
                              I don't think I will bother. Nothing I have written on this forum is intended to insult or to enrage. I am a straight forward guy with good intentions.
                              I have been very objective.
                              If someone takes dislike to what I have said. Then I would examine their words objectively.
                              No offence. hope all is well. good luck with your training. Om mani padme hum.
                              Last edited by ghostdzog; 6/19/2016 6:01pm, .

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                                #30
                                I would be remiss by not mentioning Enson Inoue, he is Yamato Damashii after all.



                                They will probably(lol) kick the shit out of you though. The brothers have a reputation of running tough gyms.




                                He even speaks English and can get all spiritual on you.


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