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    Which Japanese MMA has the most practitioners

    Recently, i discovered that a number of Japanese martial art practitioners (mostly Japanese Knockdown Karate and Judo practitioners) have developed MMA styles that are very "Japanese" in nature.

    I figured that what these guys have created must have appeal to a percentage of the MMA community. Some that have come from Japanese styles originally, such as Judo or Karate / or both.
    Who want to learn / test out their skills in a more real situation
    Some guys who also may be attracted to the effectiveness and reality of MMA, but who are more philosophical and spiritual in nature who may not like the modern attitude that is seen with some of the more aggressive MMA people.

    Nonetheless, when I discovered one of the first Japanese Judo / Karate combo's, I was quiet interested.
    However, the more I look, the more other styles I find.

    The first style I found was Kudo Daido Juku. Then the other day I also discovered Nippon Kempo, which looked similar. After reading one of the bullshido boards, I just found another style that I wasn't aware of called Enshin, which again looks similar to these both.

    I was wondering if any one who is experienced in these styles could let me know of any other Japanese styles that also are similar in nature, in that they combine Karate striking with Judo throws and sweeps (and maybe even ne-waza). And also give me an idea as to which is the most popular (so I know which one has the best competitions).
    I also wonder what the differences are between safety equipment. I.E. which styles uses what safety kit.

    I was also wondering as to whether there are any instructional books / dvd's on these martial arts. As I have not been able to find any online.

    I also understand that there are loads of other styles that are not Japanese that are again also similar, such as SanShou and Combat Sambo etc.

    Grateful for any help.
    Kind regards

    Justin

    #2
    Someone recently posted some vids of some black and red dressed fighters that looked like a combination of chi sao, karate chops, and pro wrestling, I forget what it was called.

    Comment


      #3
      Shoot wrestling?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
        Recently, i discovered that a number of Japanese martial art practitioners (mostly Japanese Knockdown Karate and Judo practitioners) have developed MMA styles that are very "Japanese" in nature.

        Justin
        I would caution you against quoting something as being very 'Japanese' in nature.

        What defines it as being more Japanese? After all, judo (one of your examples) is a sport practiced by literal millions worldwide, with most schools (though not all) practicing in such a way that it can't really be identified as uniquely Japanese.

        And as for Kyokushin... while it can still be argued that it is an essentially Japanese style, it is also worth mentioning (in regard to that context) that the founder of Kyokushin wasn't Japanese himself, but Korean. Moreover, while the founder and head of Enshin (Joko Ninomiya) is certainly Japanese, he lives in the United States of America, and in-fact founded Enshin after having moved away from Japan.

        I'm not saying you're wrong to think of them in that way, but I mostly want to point out that you're potentially oversimplifying these arts.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Permalost View Post
          Someone recently posted some vids of some black and red dressed fighters that looked like a combination of chi sao, karate chops, and pro wrestling, I forget what it was called.
          http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=125320

          Comment


            #6
            ^that's the one.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Lanner Hunt View Post
              I would caution you against quoting something as being very 'Japanese' in nature.

              What defines it as being more Japanese? After all, judo (one of your examples) is a sport practiced by literal millions worldwide, with most schools (though not all) practicing in such a way that it can't really be identified as uniquely Japanese.

              And as for Kyokushin... while it can still be argued that it is an essentially Japanese style, it is also worth mentioning (in regard to that context) that the founder of Kyokushin wasn't Japanese himself, but Korean. Moreover, while the founder and head of Enshin (Joko Ninomiya) is certainly Japanese, he lives in the United States of America, and in-fact founded Enshin after having moved away from Japan.

              I'm not saying you're wrong to think of them in that way, but I mostly want to point out that you're potentially oversimplifying these arts.
              Hi Mate,
              thanks for the advice. and sure. I understand what you are saying.
              I knew that vague description would cause problems.

              BTW didn't mean to cause offense with this term, just wanted to find a word to use that described styles that firstly focussed using Japanese styles as their base, but also Japanese philosophy, tradition, etiquette and spirituality as their basis.

              I understand what you are saying regarding the globalization of Judo, thus making Judo being a style that may be regarded as Global now.
              Although, some may argue, especially some who hold high ranks in the hierarchy of Judo (such as the top guys from IJF) that Judo is still quintessentially Japanese.
              I would also argue that because Mas Oyama spent most of his life living and training in Japan, and taught by the Japanese, before he refined his technique to create kyokushin, that his style is still Japanese. Although I guess there would be an argument to say that if you took this to heart, then you could trace Mas Oyama's lineage to the founders of Naha-Te, living in Okinawa during the revolt against the Japanese Satsuma clan oppression of Okinawa. And that's with out going into too much detail on the areas that founders of Naha te came from.

              No mean to offend and not arguing which is best in terms of effectiveness. My point was that some people are more attracted to ways of training than others.
              More modern scientific people may be more attracted to purely scientific training gyms, while others who like eastern philosophy may be more attracted to a style that is more in line with how they see things or like to train.

              that's all I meant really. no offence meant.

              s

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                Someone recently posted some vids of some black and red dressed fighters that looked like a combination of chi sao, karate chops, and pro wrestling, I forget what it was called.
                think that was probably san shou / sanda

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                  Hi Mate,
                  thanks for the advice. and sure. I understand what you are saying.
                  I knew that vague description would cause problems.

                  BTW didn't mean to cause offense with this term, just wanted to find a word to use that described styles that firstly focussed using Japanese styles as their base, but also Japanese philosophy, tradition, etiquette and spirituality as their basis.

                  I understand what you are saying regarding the globalization of Judo, thus making Judo being a style that may be regarded as Global now.
                  Although, some may argue, especially some who hold high ranks in the hierarchy of Judo (such as the top guys from IJF) that Judo is still quintessentially Japanese.
                  I would also argue that because Mas Oyama spent most of his life living and training in Japan, and taught by the Japanese, before he refined his technique to create kyokushin, that his style is still Japanese. Although I guess there would be an argument to say that if you took this to heart, then you could trace Mas Oyama's lineage to the founders of Naha-Te, living in Okinawa during the revolt against the Japanese Satsuma clan oppression of Okinawa. And that's with out going into too much detail on the areas that founders of Naha te came from.

                  No mean to offend and not arguing which is best in terms of effectiveness. My point was that some people are more attracted to ways of training than others.
                  More modern scientific people may be more attracted to purely scientific training gyms, while others who like eastern philosophy may be more attracted to a style that is more in line with how they see things or like to train.

                  that's all I meant really. no offence meant.

                  s
                  Oh no, I didn't mean to sound like I was offended. I'm not!

                  My main point was, there are more to Japanese arts than their 'Japanese-ness'. I get from subsequent posts that you more or less understand that, so I apologize if I sounded strong or forceful.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                    but also Japanese philosophy, tradition, etiquette and spirituality as their basis.
                    So basically you are not really interested in Self Defense your interested in a culture.
                    It would have been much easier if you just said you where a Weeaboo.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      When I think of what makes Japanese MMA a bit unique, I think of the pro wrestling/puroresu inflence more than traditional Japanese martial arts influence.

                      and quiet, reserved audiences.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                        When I think of what makes Japanese MMA a bit unique, I think of the pro wrestling/puroresu inflence more than traditional Japanese martial arts influence.

                        and quiet, reserved audiences.
                        LOL, exactly.
                        There's all this crazy shit going on in the ring and all around the arena and they look like a video game audience.

                        That and freak show mismatches.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                          So basically you are not really interested in Self Defense your interested in a culture.
                          It would have been much easier if you just said you where a Weeaboo.
                          no. I am interested in self defence as well as Judo sport.

                          But also with Eastern philosophy.

                          I don't think my interests are that rare. I am alike a lot of the traditional budo martial arts in that i like all the philosophy,
                          tradition and etiquette but I also want to train in way that i can get my techniques to work. Using free fighting and MMA style fight scenarios but
                          with against non-trained opponent/s or at the very least simulated un-trained opponents *(who attack using only street thug style attacks)
                          either against one on one or one against more than one.

                          I believe that even within my idiosyncratic ideals and requirements there are styles that cater for me.

                          ps. not sure what a weeeboo is. thanks.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            actually. some would say that many of the Japanese martial arts are intrinsically linked to Japanese culture. The japanese have even started universities that teach Japanese martial arts along side Japanese cultural studies.

                            An excellent example of this would be found in International Budo University, where among others, the renowned world Judo and All Japan Champ Katsuhiko KASHIWAZAKI, Judo genius teaches Judo. Kashiwazaki btw invented some of the most interesting variations on Tomoe nage and many ne-waza techniques.

                            Also other renowned Judoka that promotes Japanese Culture include Yasuhiro Yamashita, undefeated Judoka, 5 x world Judo champ. Who also promotes Japanese culture / Budo along side Judo / martial arts.

                            Perhaps you would also call them weeaboo's too?
                            i dont know what it means
                            and i did not come on this forum for an argument. I am not an internet warrior.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              no. I am interested in self defence as well as Judo sport.
                              sigh, what is exactly your experience level with Judo at this point?

                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              But also with Eastern philosophy.
                              Personally I dislike this expression, it assumes a unified philosophy between eastern countries.

                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              I don't think my interests are that rare. I am alike a lot of the traditional budo martial arts in that i like all the philosophy,
                              I think you can study Eastern philosophy on its own with out having to mix in the martial arts. If your martial arts are shoving philosophy down your throat then its likely a bullshit martial art. The philosophy doesn't influence effectiveness.

                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              I also want to train in way that i can get my techniques to work. Using free fighting and MMA style fight scenarios but
                              with against non-trained opponent/s or at the very least simulated un-trained opponents *(who attack using only street thug style attacks)
                              either against one on one or one against more than one.
                              Why the fuck are you even talking about un-trained opponents?
                              Seriously do you think that if you can beat trained opponents that untrained ones are going to some how give you more trouble?


                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              I believe that even within my idiosyncratic ideals and requirements there are styles that cater for me.
                              Unlikely since the two don't really intersect with each other.
                              Learning to fight is learning to fight.
                              Learning philosophy is learning philosophy.
                              I sugest if you want to learn to fight go learn to fight and learn the other bull crap somewhere else.
                              It sound to me like you REALLY want to learn MMA but for some fucking reason are not willing to just go to MMA.

                              Originally posted by ghostdzog View Post
                              ps. not sure what a weeeboo is. thanks.
                              Obviously you have the internet how about you use that to figure it out.

                              Comment

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