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Do you think Kung Fu and other TMA ever "worked?"

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  • BKR
    replied
    Delete double post.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    Sounds like an excuse old people make.
    Old people usually don't do hard physical labor all day for a living. Not in our society anyway.

    I was younger when I did that kind of stuff, for sure. It's a lot easier to go and lift or otherwise train when you recovery time is faster.

    When I had white collar jobs I would workout, train, etc. When I worked in the planer portion of the lumber mill, and was running a small farm, and had two small children, I got plenty of exercise and not much time. I was in my early/mid 40s then, and it took me a few months to adjust to the skilled labor job. I quit doing judo for almost 2 years...

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  • Bneterasedmynam
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    As someone who has done hard labor all day, going to work out at night isn't usually a priority...
    Sounds like an excuse old people make.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    The parents probably just want "self discipline and good grades", not combat ability.

    I should open a place called "Orientalist Daycare" where the kids get to do light calisthenics and practice mathematics while wearing stereotypical asian martial arts uniforms.
    I think that's been done already...

    If kids are not disciplined and getting decent grades in school, it's parental failure already.

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetcat
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    As someone who has done hard labor all day, going to work out at night isn't usually a priority...
    You're speaking from experience and with authority ...

    Amen BKR

    Leave a comment:


  • BackFistMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    The parents probably just want "self discipline and good grades", not combat ability.

    I should open a place called "Orientalist Daycare" where the kids get to do light calisthenics and practice mathematics while wearing stereotypical asian martial arts uniforms.
    I prefer Asian Themed Daycare Center but whatever... we can totally share that market segment yo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    Originally posted by notfromvenus View Post
    It's not just karate. Where I live, every BJJ/MMA place advertises children's BJJ/MMA classes. Kids are where a lot of the $$$ is. I think the real question is, with any kids program, martial arts or dance or gymnastics or whatever.... are the kids actually learning the foundation to be good, or are they just playing around in a cute outfit? Unfortunately, at least in my experience, it seems like a lot of TMA places don't give a shit about whether the kids are any good as long as the parents keep paying tuition.
    The parents probably just want "self discipline and good grades", not combat ability.

    I should open a place called "Orientalist Daycare" where the kids get to do light calisthenics and practice mathematics while wearing stereotypical asian martial arts uniforms.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by Streetcat View Post
    These are good points.

    I also read somewhere that China, being an agrarian society historically, had most martial arts men working
    hard labor all day. And, because there was no TV or other amusement they practiced their fighting skills all night for fun.

    If you are lifting all day and training all night I would think you could reach a very high skill level. Certainly more than a modern amateur training for a couple of hours a couple of days a week.

    On the other hand, we have made a lot of progress in training methods and nutrition. Also, modern MA is readily available so you can cross train in several arts. This wasn't possible before.

    So, it's definitely an interesting topic but hard to answer the question
    As someone who has done hard labor all day, going to work out at night isn't usually a priority...

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetcat
    replied
    Originally posted by MisterMR View Post
    My two cents:

    Live sparring is cool but, in particular for striking, it is very dangerous in a society where medical knowledge is low (compared to today standards), in particular if protective gear like gloves are rare or expensive.
    In this situation, a lot of old ideas like classifying the side of the knee as a "deadly ressure point" make sense, becouse if you let your students in your dojo lowkick each other all the day you could easily cripple them for life, hence this kind of strike becomes a "forbidden deadly strike".

    So for this reason I think that in most of the world for most of the time striking martial arts sucked, and looked like what now we call "TMA".

    I think that grappling martial arts were less dangerous, so I assume that said arts were more similar to modern world grappling (although it seems that "submission" grappling was less common than "throw your opponent on the ground" grappling, I don't know why).



    EDIT

    And also, importantly, the modern concept of sports was born together with mass education, and also most marial arts that are known today trace their roots in mass public education (judo, modern boxe, karate, werstling), so perhaps the idea of "sparring", meaning fighting but under a set of rules that preserves the health of the fighters, is also a consequence of mass education.
    But without this concept of sparring it becomes impossible to train seriously.
    These are good points.

    I also read somewhere that China, being an agrarian society historically, had most martial arts men working
    hard labor all day. And, because there was no TV or other amusement they practiced their fighting skills all night for fun.

    If you are lifting all day and training all night I would think you could reach a very high skill level. Certainly more than a modern amateur training for a couple of hours a couple of days a week.

    On the other hand, we have made a lot of progress in training methods and nutrition. Also, modern MA is readily available so you can cross train in several arts. This wasn't possible before.

    So, it's definitely an interesting topic but hard to answer the question

    Leave a comment:


  • notfromvenus
    replied
    Originally posted by Streetcat View Post
    It's sad that the karate dojos were turned into kindergartens. The old guys like Trias, Lewis, Urban and the like were guys with real skill.
    I do see the argument of using the arts for discipline and instilling a degree of confidence but, ... Gee Wiz.
    It's not just karate. Where I live, every BJJ/MMA place advertises children's BJJ/MMA classes. Kids are where a lot of the $$$ is. I think the real question is, with any kids program, martial arts or dance or gymnastics or whatever.... are the kids actually learning the foundation to be good, or are they just playing around in a cute outfit? Unfortunately, at least in my experience, it seems like a lot of TMA places don't give a shit about whether the kids are any good as long as the parents keep paying tuition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Losco
    replied
    My 2 personal 2 cents................

    Dont ask what the Street can do for you

    Instead of

    Ask what you can do for the STREET

    Leave a comment:


  • Omega Supreme
    replied
    Originally posted by RWaggs View Post
    The man in the black gi at 13:10 of the video. His primary striking background is Goju. I've fought him before. It sucked. The only thing that may suck worse at these tournaments is fighting his opponent in the video, Jun. One of my schoolmates did a few years ago...ouch.

    Why the fuck would you fight this guy on the outside. I've fought these tall guys before, I never give them the distance advantage.

    *edit, I did not know there was another match. What the second guy did is how you fight tall guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetcat
    replied
    Originally posted by Streetcat View Post
    Exactly,

    If you get tagged by a Tyson you're going down and if you get malled by a Mir you're going to be turned into a pretzel.

    The rest of us mortals are wherever our skill and training will take us. Kung Fu has some standouts as do all other forms of MA.
    I do like the mixed martial arts and appreciate the extreme conditioning these guys have even though I don't currently train in it but I am going to look into it.
    Sorry, hit the wrong key "mauled"

    None of us were there to see if any of these arts were historically effective.
    I think you just have to see what they are like now.

    It's sad that the karate dojos were turned into kindergartens. The old guys like Trias, Lewis, Urban and the like were guys with real skill.
    I do see the argument of using the arts for discipline and instilling a degree of confidence but, ... Gee Wiz.

    Leave a comment:


  • RWaggs
    replied
    The man in the black gi at 13:10 of the video. His primary striking background is Goju. I've fought him before. It sucked. The only thing that may suck worse at these tournaments is fighting his opponent in the video, Jun. One of my schoolmates did a few years ago...ouch.

    Leave a comment:


  • MisterMR
    replied
    My two cents:

    Live sparring is cool but, in particular for striking, it is very dangerous in a society where medical knowledge is low (compared to today standards), in particular if protective gear like gloves are rare or expensive.
    In this situation, a lot of old ideas like classifying the side of the knee as a "deadly ressure point" make sense, becouse if you let your students in your dojo lowkick each other all the day you could easily cripple them for life, hence this kind of strike becomes a "forbidden deadly strike".

    So for this reason I think that in most of the world for most of the time striking martial arts sucked, and looked like what now we call "TMA".

    I think that grappling martial arts were less dangerous, so I assume that said arts were more similar to modern world grappling (although it seems that "submission" grappling was less common than "throw your opponent on the ground" grappling, I don't know why).

    EDIT

    And also, importantly, the modern concept of sports was born together with mass education, and also most marial arts that are known today trace their roots in mass public education (judo, modern boxe, karate, werstling), so perhaps the idea of "sparring", meaning fighting but under a set of rules that preserves the health of the fighters, is also a consequence of mass education.
    But without this concept of sparring it becomes impossible to train seriously.
    Last edited by MisterMR; 6/15/2016 9:23am, .

    Leave a comment:

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