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Do you think Kung Fu and other TMA ever "worked?"

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    #61
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Why reinvent Owkinain Karate to become Kyokushin when Kyokushin is a thing?
    Why reinvent JJJ to become Judo or BJJ when those are also already a thing?

    Seems like a lot of wasted effort to just end up with something we already have?

    I mean if you wanted to take say Boxing + Greco-Roman wrestling and mash them up into a sport and a style of its own, now that makes sense.
    You would have a style that has having a very sturdy base in a fight that covers a few ranges and combines striking and grappling in a manner not currently done.
    That idea is so good Randy Couture, Matt Lindland and Dan Henderson decided to do it almost 20 years ago.


    This is one of the best martial arts books ever written.

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      #62
      Let my try this approach.
      All techniques that there are now, that will ever exist, have existed since man has walked the earth.
      They may not have been codified, they may not have been systematically taught but somewhere on the planet someone was using them since the beginning.
      Some of these techniques where created by rough housing, playing games with each, actually fighting, dueling ect.

      Move forward in history where we start seeing professional armies.
      This is when things start to really get codified.
      These systems where we start to see what we would call "martial" arts.
      They tended to be weapon work + wrestling

      Then we had the introduction of the firearm and this really changes the nature of warfare, dueling, and self defense.
      The importance of wrestling and open hand work became much less important.

      Battlefield stuff that was too dangerous to be trained in an alive manner feel into dead techniques, people who never used the techniques in an alive manner learn them and pass them on. Things morph and change. People who have never been in a fight in there life become the head of arts. Focus on what ever it is they want to focus on. So sure there are things in these arts that once worked on the battlefield, there is also a bunch of theory crafted crap too.

      So yes these things will have "effective" techniques in them but they do you know good without knowing what they are, or how to use them.

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        #63
        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
        That idea is so good Randy Couture, Matt Lindland and Dan Henderson decided to do it almost 20 years ago.


        This is one of the best martial arts books ever written.
        Yes it is a good idea, but I meant as a sport on to itself not as an effective means of doing MMA.
        Just to illustrate some concepts.
        Though I would suggest someone to train dirty boxing any day, also while at it throw in some shin kicking.

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          #64
          Originally posted by goodlun View Post
          Yes it is a good idea, but I meant as a sport on to itself not as an effective means of doing MMA.
          Just to illustrate some concepts.
          Though I would suggest someone to train dirty boxing any day, also while at it throw in some shin kicking.
          This book should be called" how to be an elite level mma-ist" it has a bit of everything but really ties wrestling and striking together nicely.

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            #65
            Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
            This book should be called" how to be an elite level mma-ist" it has a bit of everything but really ties wrestling and striking together nicely.
            I just want to see the return of throws from the clinch to boxing, is that asking too much?

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              #66
              Originally posted by Bar Humbug View Post
              If Kung Fu masters are to be believed, you'd think that there were a billion fucking Shaolin temples in China till the white man/Japanese decided to rock up.

              You know, I wrote a really long post trying to be nice about this, but this is fucking YMAS

              Kung Fu sucks. It always Sucked. It will always Suck, cause 99.9% of the people who do it are fucking pussys who want to be badasses but don't have what it takes to walk into a Boxing or Muay Thai gym and admit to themselves that they are one of the masses, no better or worse than anyone else. Instead they live in a dream in which they can tiger claw eyes out and monkey fist a single punch and that will defeat an opponent. They like the delusion cause reality is cold and hard, and they lack the fortitude and conviction to actually engage in hard training.

              note: The remaining 0.1% is Omega Supreme and his students. Please don't kill me
              Da fuq? Oh.....so many kung fu guys I could introduce you to.

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                #67
                Does anybody but me think we've teleported back 10 years ago?

                Anybody wants to catch me up or do I really have to read through all these posts?

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
                  Does anybody but me think we've teleported back 10 years ago?
                  300 years ago, at least, from a JMA perspective.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                    That idea is so good Randy Couture, Matt Lindland and Dan Henderson decided to do it almost 20 years ago.
                    This book may be great, but my immediate first impression upon seeing the cover was that it looks like novel about the secret gay romance between two MMA fighters. I think it's the two shirtless guys, the flowery font at the bottom, and the title. ;) ;)

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
                      Does anybody but me think we've teleported back 10 years ago?
                      I have no idea what's going on right now.

                      Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
                      Anybody wants to catch me up or do I really have to read through all these posts?
                      As far as I can tell, jwinch2 thinks the difference between alive arts and dead arts is technique, and, ergo, can't figure out why the predecessors of modern alive arts aren't effective.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                        School girl style fighting works against school girls.
                        Apparently so does swimming, from what I hear... Only for 20 minutes though.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                          "My karate is so good for boxing, I never even get punched in the face in karate class!"
                          I hesitate to bring this up lest it be seen as a defense of the practice, but even the krotty classes that DO spar often give people this idea. When your typical dipped foam point-stop krotty tag match goes to three or five points it's entirely possible to play a shutout game or even an entire tournament if you're fast. When I first started Isshinryu one of our brown belts named Jim Bob (it was Tennessee; there were worse names on the rolls) used to do it all the time.

                          As a result of this artifact of the ruleset, many of us younger beginners got the idea that to become untouchable in sparring was both possible and a sign that you've reached mastery. It's one of the many reasons we thought boxing was inferior. Hell, sometimes the guy who won got hit MORE than the guy who lost. What kind of nonsense is that? Clearly they're just out there fucking around (with millions of dollars on the line) and anybody with REAL training could dodge or block every punch from those giant pillows, and then it's Ikken Hissatsu time. A good thing a real martial artist is too honorable to fight for money. Now excuse me I'm late for my shift at Waffle House...

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by MrGalt View Post
                            I hesitate to bring this up lest it be seen as a defense of the practice, but even the krotty classes that DO spar often give people this idea. When your typical dipped foam point-stop krotty tag match goes to three or five points it's entirely possible to play a shutout game or even an entire tournament if you're fast. When I first started Isshinryu one of our brown belts named Jim Bob (it was Tennessee; there were worse names on the rolls) used to do it all the time.

                            As a result of this artifact of the ruleset, many of us younger beginners got the idea that to become untouchable in sparring was both possible and a sign that you've reached mastery. It's one of the many reasons we thought boxing was inferior. Hell, sometimes the guy who won got hit MORE than the guy who lost. What kind of nonsense is that? Clearly they're just out there fucking around (with millions of dollars on the line) and anybody with REAL training could dodge or block every punch from those giant pillows, and then it's Ikken Hissatsu time. A good thing a real martial artist is too honorable to fight for money. Now excuse me I'm late for my shift at Waffle House...
                            Interesting, but to bring it back to the guy who made this claim, he himself is a Kyokushin guy, and justified it by pointing to the unconventional striking tactics used in mma...

                            Thank christ I no longer have to run the boxing classes at my uni

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by MrGalt View Post
                              I hesitate to bring this up lest it be seen as a defense of the practice, but even the krotty classes that DO spar often give people this idea.
                              Yes, that's exactly the point. The two roads to a sucky martial art are don't spar, or spar under a ruleset so alien to an actual fight that you pick up no viable skill or experience.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
                                Does anybody but me think we've teleported back 10 years ago?

                                Anybody wants to catch me up or do I really have to read through all these posts?
                                Kung Fu Does Work

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