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Do you think Kung Fu and other TMA ever "worked?"

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    #16
    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    I think kung fu worked against other kung fu fighters.
    School girl style fighting works against school girls.

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      #17
      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
      Actually it has nothing to do with the past few decades, wrestling is as ancient as anything else.
      Boxing pretty damn old too.

      The Japanese arts where battle field arts but
      The Meiji era kind of fucked that over.
      Not to mention like all true martial arts where heavily reliant on weapons of war.
      MAs in a vacuum become worthless.

      Open hand martial arts that have endured the test of time have all had sports related to them.
      I would suggest that it has a great deal to do with the last few decades. Do you think this forum exists and people are having these conversations without UFC? Certainly boxing, wrestling, judo existed, but what brought the aliveness debate and the idea that TMA's were not doing what they claimed to do into common discussion has all taken place in recent years.

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        #18
        Originally posted by jwinch2 View Post
        I would suggest that it has a great deal to do with the last few decades. Do you think this forum exists and people are having these conversations without UFC? Certainly boxing, wrestling, judo existed, but what brought the aliveness debate and the idea that TMA's were not doing what they claimed to do into common discussion has all taken place in recent years.
        Who cares about the "debate" the alive martial arts have always been alive and thee dead ones dead.
        Its not nearly as new of a concept as you think.
        The UFC didn't invent aliveness. It didn't make TMA suck and Sport based martial arts good.
        It may have shinned a light on it.
        But its something that has been known to those that did alive arts for a long time.
        There was plenty of other prize fighting going on long before the UFC.
        Kano didn't invent sparring, what he did do was recognize it as the key to getting good.
        One of the arguments for Judo for a very long time not just the past decade has been well they Randori.
        The fact that they got to train at 100% is what made Judo good, not its pick of techniques, not the fact that its a grappling system.
        The fact that they got to practice what they did with aliveness, this has been a selling point since the start of Judo.
        Judo being pretty young is still older than a lot of the stuff we consider to be "TMAs".

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          #19
          I got into Judo before the UFC aliveness was something talked about at the time in the 80s.

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            #20
            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            I got into Judo before the UFC aliveness was something talked about at the time in the 80s.
            Me too, it was so alive I thought I was going to die more than once...

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              #21
              Originally posted by Bar Humbug View Post
              Cause asians/Brazilians/whatever are naturally more hard working than white people?
              Brazilians are not white enough?

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                #22
                Originally posted by DCS View Post
                Brazilians are not white enough?
                Brazilians don't like being called Latino.
                They are racist by the shade down there.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                  Who cares about the "debate" the alive martial arts have always been alive and thee dead ones dead.
                  Its not nearly as new of a concept as you think.
                  The UFC didn't invent aliveness. It didn't make TMA suck and Sport based martial arts good.
                  It may have shinned a light on it.
                  Exactly my point.

                  The fact that they got to train at 100% is what made Judo good, not its pick of techniques, not the fact that its a grappling system.
                  Again, that is my point. By that definition, if a TMA such as Okinawan Karate were to train at 100% on a regular basis, keeping the focus on reality instead of point fighting, kata competition, etc. there isn't any real reason why it couldn't be effective. If Oyama could draw from Goju and Shotokan to create and effective art by altering the manner in which it was trained and tested, why couldn't the practitioners of those arts do the same?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                    Brazilians don't like being called Latino.
                    They are racist by the shade down there.
                    They certainly can be. Though both have a mixed background, my mother in law is more German in her heritage and my father in law is more native. My wife's grandfather on her mom's side still roots for Germany in the World Cup over Brazil, and he was not happy when his daughter married my father in law. Of course, as you move North there is more African heritage as well. Brazil has as much diversity as the USA does, if not more, as you probably are aware.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by jwinch2 View Post
                      Exactly my point.

                      Again, that is my point. By that definition, if a TMA such as Okinawan Karate were to train at 100% on a regular basis, keeping the focus on reality instead of point fighting, kata competition, etc. there isn't any real reason why it couldn't be effective. If Oyama could draw from Goju and Shotokan to create and effective art by altering the manner in which it was trained and tested, why couldn't the practitioners of those arts do the same?
                      Then it wouldn't be Okinawan Karate it would be what ever it becomes

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                        Then it wouldn't be Okinawan Karate it would be what ever it becomes
                        It would certainly be different, there is no doubt about that. I can't help but wonder what exactly Kyokushin, Enshin, etc. is though. To me, it is Okinawan Karate with a better training mentality and method of testing. I am open to argument on that however.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by jwinch2 View Post
                          It would certainly be different, there is no doubt about that. I can't help but wonder what exactly Kyokushin, Enshin, etc. is though. To me, it is Okinawan Karate with a better training mentality and method of testing. I am open to argument on that however.


                          The difference between Okinawan Karate and Kokushin Karate is pretty stark, almost like the difference between Judo and Aikido stark.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by jwinch2 View Post
                            Exactly my point.

                            Again, that is my point. By that definition, if a TMA such as Okinawan Karate were to train at 100% on a regular basis, keeping the focus on reality instead of point fighting, kata competition, etc. there isn't any real reason why it couldn't be effective. If Oyama could draw from Goju and Shotokan to create and effective art by altering the manner in which it was trained and tested, why couldn't the practitioners of those arts do the same?
                            You ever notice everyone in K1/glory kickboxing fights in about the same way on a macro level?

                            All good kickboxing looks about the same.
                            Clinching becomes more prevalent when its allowed(muay thai)

                            There are only so many ways to punch and kick.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                              You ever notice everyone in K1/glory kickboxing fights in about the same way on a macro level?

                              All good kickboxing looks about the same.
                              Clinching becomes more prevalent when its allowed(muay thai)

                              There are only so many ways to punch and kick.
                              I suppose there are only so many different ways you can hit someone, and out of those only a few are really all that efficient effective and do able.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by BigJim520 View Post
                                I hope you have a quality boxer in his weight class so he can test his theory.
                                We don't, and I don't want to invite in a heavyweight boxer to knock out an old guy, pretty sure the Uni would have a bitch fit about that

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