"Not the style" argument with TMA

[Broomie]

There does seem to be some finality to properly applied grappling techniques, with a choke that guy is going to go lights out if you hold it, and with a joint lock you are going to do damage.
Of course you can still get power bombed while say triangling someone or even arm baring someone.
I think it was yesterday where I watched a video of someone just hulking their way back up standing while someone was trying to arm bar them.

Of course. I hope we can agree that my 5' 11" 150 lb. frame isn't going to jump on Travis Browne's back and do anything. To him, I'd feel like he was wearing a scarf.
I do wanna see that video now...

[Bneterasedmynam]

Following his logic I could create a style where you have your hands behind your back and just do flying headbutts and cock slaps and as long as I do hard sparring, hit the gym etc it's just as viable as kickboxing + wrestling.

Flying headbutts might work l have been on the receiving end of headbutts and they can be devastating.

[1point2]

1) While training practices are not identical to style, there is a major correlation between some styles and some training methods. But he's not wrong here. If someone crazy athletic and aggressive did Yellow Bamboo, they might be a good fighter. Which brings me to point #2.

2) When we talk about styles, we're trying to keep other variables constant. Yes, if a TKD fighter is way more athletic and practices street self-defense scenarios weekly, he may fare better than a boxer who is weak, uncoordinated, and trains only for sport. But that's stacking the deck. Take the *same* person and apply TKD training to them, or apply boxing training to them: under which does that person, or do people in general, flourish? In which ways?

Unrelated to the specific argument, A) he sounds like a real jerk and B) I've seen people, including myself, espouse the "it's the person, not the art" or "it's the school, not the art" position because it gives them an "out" when someone says their style sucks. What they do may suck, it may not, but this way they can ignore other saying that they're training a style that 90% of the time is garbage.

[BackFistMonkey]

Flying headbutts might work l have been on the receiving end of headbutts and they can be devastating.

You didn't even touch on about how devastating windmilling dicks can be.

I think Jim Giant is on to something here man.

[Permalost]

1) While training practices are not identical to style, there is a major correlation between some styles and some training methods. But he's not wrong here. If someone crazy athletic and aggressive did Yellow Bamboo, they might be a good fighter.

I don't think athleticism makes your psychic chi attacks any stronger.

[Broomie]

1) While training practices are not identical to style, there is a major correlation between some styles and some training methods. But he's not wrong here. If someone crazy athletic and aggressive did Yellow Bamboo, they might be a good fighter. Which brings me to point #2.

2) When we talk about styles, we're trying to keep other variables constant. Yes, if a TKD fighter is way more athletic and practices street self-defense scenarios weekly, he may fare better than a boxer who is weak, uncoordinated, and trains only for sport. But that's stacking the deck. Take the *same* person and apply TKD training to them, or apply boxing training to them: under which does that person, or do people in general, flourish? In which ways?

I'm ready to start a Grand Unifying Thread because the threads seem to continuously dovetail. In the RBSD too Expensive thread, there's talk about the standard of H2H training in the armed forces. A notion I think is true for Armed forces and LE: Even a sub-par technique that is applied aggressively and confidently by a trained and strong man, is going to have some success. I'm partial to windmilling dicks. But that's just me. Just the fact of that something has been trained into a person improves their confidence and reactions. So with what I understand about SF culture, they do their best to make whatever tools available to them work for them.
Now, what MA program is best for SF is a separate issue. I have my own ideas about that, but that would be for another thread. Maybe Fantasy self defense school thread.

To supports 1point2's comment. Toughness goes alooong way. Maybe the real discussion is how we cultivate that toughness.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Firearms style, you silly bastards.
Quit playing ninja.
Train sports because you love them,
it's a good sweat,
And you might get caught without your firearm.
But, when it comes to styles,
One is the best and it was marketed well by Sam Colt,
And the American Revolution Rifleman.
On a related note,
I heard suspicious noises on my property last night,
but it was not my Gi that I grabbed to go clear my property.

[BKR]

Firearms style, you silly bastards.
Quit playing ninja.
Train sports because you love them,
it's a good sweat,
And you might get caught without your firearm.
But, when it comes to styles,
One is the best and it was marketed well by Sam Colt,
And the American Revolution Rifleman.
On a related note,
I heard suspicious noises on my property last night,
but it was not my Gi that I grabbed to go clear my property.

Bill, not every encounter requires deadly force...

[Broomie]

Firearms style, you silly bastards.
Quit playing ninja.
Train sports because you love them,
it's a good sweat,
And you might get caught without your firearm.
But, when it comes to styles,
One is the best and it was marketed well by Sam Colt,
And the American Revolution Rifleman.
On a related note,
I heard suspicious noises on my property last night,
but it was not my Gi that I grabbed to go clear my property.

Wow, this was a question of whether its the fighter not the style and you're ready to get all lethal with your gat! "pop pop! Fuck your Watchtower!"
:P

[Jim Giant]

I live in the UK :(

[Dr. Gonzo]

Bill, not every encounter requires deadly force...

Absolutely true.

However, it's a hell of risk to engage with the idea that our hand to hand skills

will allow us to end a conflict with less than lethal force potential,

and then find out the other party had ideas to the contrary,

and was able to make good on their idea instead of ours.

Drunk Uncle Fred acting out at the family event is one thing.

Actually bringing our hand to hand skills to bear on an unknown adversary(s) with no agreed upon nor enforced rules of engagement is often not the smartest move.

You hunt, you know as well as I do that it does not take much a nick on a large mammal to start the meter running on a get first aid or die scenario - which can happen to us just as easily as the other guy.

Also, I love the grappling sports and boxing, but even in our sports there are a lot of people prancing about acting like idiots because they make sweat on the mats.

Many times, they are actually candidates for Darwin awards.

[goodlun]

but it was not my Gi that I grabbed to go clear my property.

Well obviously you are just one giant pussy than =)

[Permalost]

"Its not the gun, but the shooter" said the musket enthusiast to the sniper.

[Bar Humbug]

I live in the UK :(

Could be worse, you could live in Japan

Plus with the 'ambiguities' surrounding self-defence laws in the UK, its probably better that we're now allowed to carry

[BKR]

Absolutely true.

However, it's a hell of risk to engage with the idea that our hand to hand skills

will allow us to end a conflict with less than lethal force potential,

and then find out the other party had ideas to the contrary,

and was able to make good on their idea instead of ours.

Drunk Uncle Fred acting out at the family event is one thing.

Actually bringing our hand to hand skills to bear on an unknown adversary(s) with no agreed upon nor enforced rules of engagement is often not the smartest move.

You hunt, you know as well as I do that it does not take much a nick on a large mammal to start the meter running on a get first aid or die scenario - which can happen to us just as easily as the other guy.

Also, I love the grappling sports and boxing, but even in our sports there are a lot of people prancing about acting like idiots because they make sweat on the mats.

Many times, they are actually candidates for Darwin awards.

Pulling a gun on a guy who swings on you might stop the attack, however, it also might get you aggravated assault charges...

This is all highly dependent on the exact scenario, of course.

100 lb granny is attacked by 200 lb mugger, who ends up shot, probably she will get a medal.