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The Difference Between Being Unorthodox and Disrespectful…

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    #16
    I do believe that this was the match that was referenced in the article.

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      #17
      Across fighting arts, there are those who I'd call "tactically flamboyant"; using apparent openings as weaknesses to encourage predictable attacks or entries, then exploiting them. Whether or not you use it personally, you can't just ignore it and call foul anymore than you can say the same for someone playing an annoyingly effective chess strategy.

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        #18
        Originally posted by goodlun View Post
        I do believe that this was the match that was referenced in the article.

        Mount with no gi or punches isn't really that punishing compared to Gi or MMA.
        It's funny....... people claim Gi isn't "realistic" while I feel no gi with no strikes is far more divorced from a real fight.
        In a Gi , gi chokes simulate having to block punches by forcing you to keep your hands near your chin/neck while
        In a no gi match there are no punches or collar chokes so there isn't ever any real consequences for having your hands away from your chin / neck.

        I love the stuff people on team Renzo, hall and glover have done to be more creative but at the same time I see why Relson, Rickson,Royce and Co. have the Jiu-Jitsu view point of staying "combat" ready and just getting the basics razor sharp. Outside of nogi grappling in a no points scenario that is just a recipe for disaster.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
          I love the stuff people on team Renzo, hall and glover have done to be more creative but at the same time I see why Relson, Rickson,Royce and Co. have the Jiu-Jitsu view point of staying "combat" ready and just getting the basics razor sharp. Outside of nogi grappling in a no points scenario that is just a recipe for disaster.
          While I don't disagree with any of the points you are making....
          I do know that this type of shit isn't the shit that Renzo, Hall, Glover, or anyone else would do in a "real" fight.
          That submission grappling is a sport onto itself, if you want to concern your self with punches or what works in a "real" fight than do shit that has punches in it.
          Either full blown MMA or The Combat BJJ that allows punches on the ground.

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            #20
            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            While I don't disagree with any of the points you are making....
            I do know that this type of shit isn't the shit that Renzo, Hall, Glover, or anyone else would do in a "real" fight.
            That submission grappling is a sport onto itself, if you want to concern your self with punches or what works in a "real" fight than do shit that has punches in it.
            Either full blown MMA or The Combat BJJ that allows punches on the ground.
            Yea.... combat bjj doesn't actually exist. There's no real competitions that operate with those rules.

            Since Fila was disbanded theres no combat wrestling or pankration that I know of either.

            So the only way to compete in that fashion would be mma unified amateur or pro rules or just dojo matches.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
              Yea.... combat bjj doesn't actually exist. There's no real competitions that operate with those rules.

              Since Fila was disbanded theres no combat wrestling or pankration that I know of either.

              So the only way to compete in that fashion would be mma unified amateur or pro rules or just dojo matches.
              Yes there are certainly problems, I am not exactly sure how big the "market" is to host those sorts of events even. Just that the idea of them is out there, and if we want to talk about punching in grappling then include punching. It would be like saying well that wouldn't work if I could throw elbow talking about greco roman wresting, or talking about leg locks for Judo, or any sort of submisions for other types of wrestling.
              You don't hear shit about oh well I could have choked that bastard when talking about freestyle wrestling.

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                #22
                Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                Yes there are certainly problems, I am not exactly sure how big the "market" is to host those sorts of events even. Just that the idea of them is out there, and if we want to talk about punching in grappling then include punching. It would be like saying well that wouldn't work if I could throw elbow talking about greco roman wresting, or talking about leg locks for Judo, or any sort of submisions for other types of wrestling.
                You don't hear shit about oh well I could have choked that bastard when talking about freestyle wrestling.
                Yea..... Jiu-Jitsu guys say shit like that all of the time. We are fun ruiners. We are definitely the annoying hipsters of combat sports. "Oh yea, mma and competitive grappling are both cool.......but I am into the old school stuff or the underground matches. No Gloves ,no weight classes , no time limits."
                I would like to see an organization with no Gloves, pride rounds and OneFC ruleset.

                Pretending these guys hands would stay together with the punches they are throwing is fake as well. I would like to see how striking development would go with no hand protection.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                  That submission grappling is a sport onto itself, if you want to concern your self with punches or what works in a "real" fight than do shit that has punches in it.
                  I said something similar in another thread and dude lost his mind.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                    I said something similar in another thread and dude lost his mind.
                    You made a good point and so does goodlun but at the same time as you start to exploit specific rules it will shrink it's usefulness and mass appeal.

                    I don't care what Ryan does or think it's disrespectful to do anything in a match that doesn't violate the rules. I just don't really care for a match fought that way under that rule set. It causes more questions for me than it answers.

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                      #25
                      At the high levels, it is about the purse.
                      If the event has good cash prizes,
                      good competitors will come and adapt to the rulesets.
                      That is how the modern No Gi was born.
                      The Sheik of Abu Dhabi offered outrageously good cash prizes.
                      Overnight popularity of the ruleset.
                      Add good cash prizes to any ruleset,
                      and great athletes will enter and adapt well to those rulesets,
                      evolving the "sport" of those rulesets.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                        You made a good point and so does goodlun but at the same time as you start to exploit specific rules it will shrink it's usefulness.
                        Goes right back to what Omega said about evolution, It is what you want in the first place. Those boring ass wait until he gassed fights were cool, until about the 6th UFC. It's why the rules were changed to make it more exciting. Then throwing and striking became as important as a ground game.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                          Goes right back to what Omega said about evolution, It is what you want in the first place. Those boring ass wait until he gassed fights were cool, until about the 6th UFC. It's why the rules were changed to make it more exciting. Then throwing and striking became as important as a ground game.
                          I had quit watching mma for years just for that reason. I think the Shamrock/Severn fight (was it 2?) pretty much blew me out. Didn't get back into it until 2004.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            I do believe that this was the match that was referenced in the article.

                            That Long Step pass to Far Leg Saddle transition was fucking mind blowing...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                              Mount with no gi or punches isn't really that punishing compared to Gi or MMA.
                              It's funny....... people claim Gi isn't "realistic" while I feel no gi with no strikes is far more divorced from a real fight.
                              In a Gi , gi chokes simulate having to block punches by forcing you to keep your hands near your chin/neck while
                              In a no gi match there are no punches or collar chokes so there isn't ever any real consequences for having your hands away from your chin / neck.

                              I love the stuff people on team Renzo, hall and glover have done to be more creative but at the same time I see why Relson, Rickson,Royce and Co. have the Jiu-Jitsu view point of staying "combat" ready and just getting the basics razor sharp. Outside of nogi grappling in a no points scenario that is just a recipe for disaster.
                              If you don't think Hall or Glover don't have razor sharp basics you obviously never trained or rolled with either of them.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by plasma View Post
                                If you don't think Hall or Glover don't have razor sharp basics you obviously never trained or rolled with either of them.
                                No I haven't and I didn't say they didn't.

                                But I doubt they are as sharp as Kron's or the 209's.

                                Your defending them from an attack that doesn't exist.

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