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    katafication

    This popped up on my FB today...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_CKeEd29Eo

    And I thought it was fascinating. It's kind of a correct sequence of moves, with ZERO understanding of how any one them work. Even just punching from the mount.

    Also, they're wearing black belts. It's almost ninjer-like.

    This one is even better...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXfNspy7lM

    Because it's the R3ALZ crappling- I mean grappling. I mean, why learn a proper guard escape when you can groin strike?
    Last edited by BJMills; 3/13/2016 10:49pm, .

    #2
    Originally posted by BJMills View Post
    This popped up on my FB today...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_CKeEd29Eo

    And I thought it was fascinating. It's kind of a correct sequence of moves, with ZERO understanding of how any one them work. Even just punching from the mount.

    Also, they're wearing black belts. It's almost ninjer-like.
    You could make it into a continuous-loop gif, it would be like a perpetual motion crappling machine.

    Originally posted by BJMills View Post
    This one is even better...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXfNspy7lM

    Because it's the R3ALZ crappling- I mean grappling. I mean, why learn a proper guard escape when you can groin strike?
    Well, I guess if you're fighting somebody that doesn't know how to mount, you could probably gift him an armbar with impunity. That begs the question as to how you'd have gotten in that guy's mount though.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by BJMills View Post
      This one is even better...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXfNspy7lM

      Because it's the R3ALZ crappling- I mean grappling. I mean, why learn a proper guard escape when you can groin strike?
      I always wonder what kind of people promotes unleashing the deadly when defending against incompetent attackers who do not pose any real danger. Especially, like in this clip, when they do that in front of chlidren.

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        #4
        If only breaking open and passing someone's closed guard was that easy.....

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DCS View Post
          I always wonder what kind of people promotes unleashing the deadly when defending against incompetent attackers who do not pose any real danger. Especially, like in this clip, when they do that in front of chlidren.
          You see DCS......... when you're an incompetent fraud the local middle school wrestling team represents a clear and present danger to your life. So a guy like that walks around constantly afraid that a 12 year old is going throw him down and beat on him and both hurt him and wreck his snake oil career in one shot.

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            #6
            Originally posted by plasma View Post
            If only breaking open and passing someone's closed guard was that easy.....
            I just can't figure out how Royce ever won the early UFC's. ......? the just had to throw a knee to his taint and it was gonna be game over.

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              #7
              Something occurred to me last night in regards to the first video. I wonder if that was from a karate school doing the Gracie Combatives course and just doing it bad katate style.

              I'm not even saying they are online blue belts, just that maybe they are using the material.

              They've clearly seen a guard pass demonstrated but I'm assuming in a video since any live instruction would clear up some misconceptions pretty god damned fast.

              As for the 2nd video, if those guys are so worried about THE STREETS why bother learning to break guard in the first place? 1) chances of ending up in someone's guard in a street fight are almost nonexistent. 2) if you do end up in someone's guard and they don't know how to employ it, just posture up and punch them in the face. 3) if you somehow end up in someone's guard who does know what they are doing see #2 or any random mma match, because that's really your best chance. Trying to actually grapple will just get you submitted that much faster.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                Something occurred to me last night in regards to the first video. I wonder if that was from a karate school doing the Gracie Combatives course and just doing it bad katate style.

                I'm not even saying they are online blue belts, just that maybe they are using the material.

                They've clearly seen a guard pass demonstrated but I'm assuming in a video since any live instruction would clear up some misconceptions pretty god damned fast.
                Technique can devolve too. There are karate schools where they learned technique from a student who had prior experience in judo/BJJ/whatever, and then they "karate-ify" it. There are also karate schools whose instructors had judo black belts and they incorporate that into the karate...and then their students, without extensive randori, lose the important parts of the techniques and then become instructors, and on it goes.

                Honestly I'm with you: I bet this was a karate instructor who watched the 1990s Rorion Gracie tapes and taught a karate-ified version as advanced material to his black belts.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by 1point2 View Post
                  Technique can devolve too. There are karate schools where they learned technique from a student who had prior experience in judo/BJJ/whatever, and then they "karate-ify" it. There are also karate schools whose instructors had judo black belts and they incorporate that into the karate...and then their students, without extensive randori, lose the important parts of the techniques and then become instructors, and on it goes.
                  You caused the below train of thought...
                  Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                  I just can't figure out how Royce ever won the early UFC's. ......? the just had to throw a knee to his taint and it was gonna be game over.
                  The secret is really focusing and getting the blade of your knee cap against the prostate one good time.

                  Your lack of real life encounters and focus on playing sport by sporting rules has blinded you to the true purpose of the technique and the subtle energy work required. Beginners should start gently with soft thrusting to avoid injury. Over time more vigorous drills and exercises will desensi... attune you to the Ether of the universe.

                  Then you can pass guards at will and travel the solar system with me in a Crystal Ship made of Love and Light.

                  Maybe visit the moons of Jupiter.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I remember Omega a few years ago saying he had developed several "modern katas" for grappling, things like armbar/triangle/armbar. I guarantee his look nothing like this crappling, however.
                    Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A while back, a TKD instructor of mine had me help out with a groundwork day (a few times in the end), showing the basics of mount escapes, moving to side control then into mount themselves, similar to the sequence in the video...

                      ... observing the spazing in the class and people failing to actually get into mount (instead they just squatted on someone, different kind of demonstration), I am surprised this video wasn't worse, you could recognise what they were going for

                      To be fair though, I will give props to karateka/TKDer's/whatever who do recognise a need for a ground game, problem is that the best of intentions does not translate into the transmission of effective skills

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The first video, ughhhhh....

                        The second video, better, but why don't we ever see foundational training like shrimping, elbow escape, bridging/rolling, bucking, hip heists, etc. BEFORE we see the fantastic ground grappling stuff that will save your life ?

                        I mean, when I teach, say, simple hip bump sweep (a crappy Judo version, no doubt, LOL!), I do other foundational drills and movements first in a progression towards the "technique".

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                          #13
                          First video would be perfect if they added a kiai.

                          Second video: Got kicked off "So You Think You Can Dance," decided to teach JKD.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 1point2 View Post
                            Technique can devolve too. There are karate schools where they learned technique from a student who had prior experience in judo/BJJ/whatever, and then they "karate-ify" it. There are also karate schools whose instructors had judo black belts and they incorporate that into the karate...and then their students, without extensive randori, lose the important parts of the techniques and then become instructors, and on it goes.
                            I have seen this first hand, and probably incurred in it, too. Two of my teachers had judo experience, as did one of my frequent training partners. But we did the judo techniques during "self-defense" scenarios or against karate attacks, not in isolated judo kata or drills or judo vs judo randori, so they were never polished and became more and more distorted. A lot of local people teach as osoto-garai what is actually more osoto-gake.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ksennin View Post
                              we did the judo techniques during "self-defense" scenarios or against karate attacks, not in isolated judo kata or drills or judo vs judo randori, so they were never polished and became more and more distorted
                              Totally. Kosotogari is in most of my old karate school's two-person drills, but nobody had any clue how to make it work, because that was their only exposure to it. To me, that's the real crisis of teaching kata: all the time spent learning how to wave your arms and yell instead of learning basic posture and footwork from randori and randori-oriented drills.

                              Originally posted by ksennin View Post
                              A lot of local people teach as osoto-garai what is actually more osoto-gake.
                              I'm convinced that karate ruined my right-side osotogari. At karate we practiced right-side "osotogari" with a backwards pull on the outside arm, a weak first step, and osoto-gake-ing the second step after firmly planting it. I didn't manage to relearn it after I switched to judo. But my left-side osoto ain't too bad!

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