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    Learning online. Can it be done? Are they any good teachers?

    Hello, I've just gotten back into martial arts after a long period. I've just started going on a daily basis pretty much at the local martial arts gym. However, I get home and some times after the lesson if I'm not completely dead or if I have a spare hour, I like to do a little technique work in the house. Trying to work on it so I can fetch it back into the gym and work on it some more... Almost like homework only with more face(bag) kicking.

    So I'm wondering, is there any actual good videos online that will teach you some good drills and technique work? Recently I've been checking out the Ginger Ninja Fellow (as seen below) though I'm not sure if I'm skilled enough to judge whether what he's doing is really good or if he's Bullshit or what.




    I've also looked into Fight Tips but I've heard dubious things in the past and Kwonkicker. I may be beating a dead horse here or possibly even resurrecting one but with the site being a little quiet recently I thought I'd try and see what I can drum up and really it's a topic I'm quite interested in. I've known there to be some really poor as shit teachers on youtube (THomas Daw) but are there any good ones, worth watching...
    "BJJ!!! Guard can't protect you from collapsing gym roof, tough guy!" - W. Rabbit

    #2
    Sure you can get yourself into great shape.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFFz...zJ66m5uhDk8JVK







    What you are not going to learn online is any sort of COMBAT skills, including combative sport skills.
    Those require a partner.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
      Sure you can get yourself into great shape.

      What you are not going to learn online is any sort of COMBAT skills, including combative sport skills.
      Those require a partner.
      I wouldn't think you could learn to fight online... I honestly don't think you can learn how to correctly fight without any form of sparring or pressure testing. However, learning new techniques or ideas for combinations to work on the bag or fetch to the gym with you for sparring. Would you think that would be possible from youtube videos?

      I'm not deluded enough to believe that you can become a fighter or even any good at martial arts from purely watching youtube videos, without a teacher there to correct your form and other students to train with and force you to use those techniques while under pressure, it's going to fail. However, could the correct online teacher help in giving new ideas for techniques or combinations?
      "BJJ!!! Guard can't protect you from collapsing gym roof, tough guy!" - W. Rabbit

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
        However, learning new techniques or ideas for combinations to work on the bag or fetch to the gym with you for sparring. Would you think that would be possible from youtube videos?
        Not worth your time or effort, it would be much better spent becoming incredibly fit.

        Think about this what good is a technique or combination learnt in a vacuum without all the context you get by sparring.
        There are only so many ways to throw a punch, boxing isn't learning how to throw a punch that is day one shit.
        Boxing is learning when to throw that punch.

        This mentality can be extended to kicking, clinching, and grappling.

        I could drill an armbar on a dummy a 1000 times every day, and sure I will understand the technique, or more precisely how that technique works on a dummy.
        I would still be missing all of the little shit that happens when another human is on the other end, the way they shift their hips, the way they block, the way fight back.
        Being able to do a spinning armbar against a static opponent doesn't really prepare you for a dynamic one.
        I would say in my example doing a 1000 turkish get ups would better prepare you for a match than a 1000 arm bars against a static dummy.

        Comment


          #5
          If you already have a decent base in what you are studying, then videos and books can be a helpful tool.

          Comment


            #6
            I'm not for one second thinking that sparring isn't probably the most important part of martial arts training. I'm not saying you could replace any of this training with online videos however... Lets go back to your example with the arm bar. You've drilled it on your dummy 1000 times every day, you have a grasp on how that technique works. Now you take it into sparring and you try applying it on a human, the fellows not going to be compliant, he's not just going to let you perform it on him so yeah, you're going to adjust yourself and adjust the technique you've just learned while you're sparring in order to actually get it to work but you do know the technique and at least the basic principles behind it.

            Is this really all that different from how we learn at the gym. I mean when I learn a technique off of my instructor, a jab for example, we hit a pad, the air or a bag. We drill it until we have a good grasp of how it works, why it works and all the other basic mechanics of it. However you don't learn how to actually use it until you actually spar with it and you have the pressure of someone trying to hit you or being non-compliant.

            Now what I'm saying is, see the second video down in my OP. The basic combinations, would it not be worth the time practicing it at home, against the air and against the bag... Then when I go back to the gym and it comes to the time for sparring, wouldn't I still be able to attempt to apply the base principle of the techniques or combinations against the sparring partner, with a few adjustments for having a live opponent. Have I still not learned something useful to take with me and adjust it to fit in the gym?
            "BJJ!!! Guard can't protect you from collapsing gym roof, tough guy!" - W. Rabbit

            Comment


              #7
              From my experience, you can definitely get ideas from online video instruction and put them to good application --- after live practice, and with the caveat that not all techniques work equally for all people. Identify the gross movements you want to emulate, drill them for/by yourself, and then try them next time you're at the gym.

              Over the years, I've seen instructors go from "don't watch youtube, just do what I tell you," to "I want you to watch youtube, find new techniques, and experiment with them." This speaks volumes about what you can learn from supplemental instruction, such as books and videos.

              Even better than instructional videos, look at real fights. Pick up ideas that are combat-proven from those practitioners' execution.

              As far as drilling at home, alone, I think your best bet is to concentrate on proper execution of fundamental movements, not stringing together predetermined combos. Yes, you should be able to put together a combo, but that combo will have to be specific to your opponent when you use it. Shadowboxing, maybe?
              Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
                I'm not for one second thinking that sparring isn't probably the most important part of martial arts training. I'm not saying you could replace any of this training with online videos however... Lets go back to your example with the arm bar. You've drilled it on your dummy 1000 times every day, you have a grasp on how that technique works.
                What I am saying is you don't actually grasp how it works, you grasp how to manipulate a dead arm using a dead pattern.
                You wouldn't have learned anything more than doing it 20 times with an alive partner.
                Lets put it this way:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
                Once you get the part you need to get, you get it.
                Knowing the body movements for the arm bar doesn't take 1000 times doing it.
                Its not those movements that make it work.
                You can do 2+2 over and over and over again and over again.
                But doing so isn't making you any better at math.

                Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
                Now you take it into sparring and you try applying it on a human, the fellows not going to be compliant, he's not just going to let you perform it on him so yeah, you're going to adjust yourself and adjust the technique you've just learned while you're sparring in order to actually get it to work but you do know the technique and at least the basic principles behind it.
                What your missing is the technique to hit a bag and a person are actually different fundamentally.
                hitting the bag your learning 2+2.
                Sparring your learning, the number line, and how to jump right and left on it.

                Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
                Is this really all that different from how we learn at the gym. I mean when I learn a technique off of my instructor, a jab for example, we hit a pad, the air or a bag. We drill it until we have a good grasp of how it works, why it works and all the other basic mechanics of it. However you don't learn how to actually use it until you actually spar with it and you have the pressure of someone trying to hit you or being non-compliant.
                It is very different, at the gym you get feed back from other people. Hitting pads is still dynamic people are still involved.

                Seriously there is nothing to fucking "grasp" you don't need a Theory of Punching 101 class.

                It takes 15 mins to teach someone how to hit a fucking bag.


                Originally posted by Sovvolf View Post
                Now what I'm saying is, see the second video down in my OP. The basic combinations, would it not be worth the time practicing it at home, against the air and against the bag... Then when I go back to the gym and it comes to the time for sparring, wouldn't I still be able to attempt to apply the base principle of the techniques or combinations against the sparring partner, with a few adjustments for having a live opponent. Have I still not learned something useful to take with me and adjust it to fit in the gym?
                [/QUOTE]

                and what I am saying is the time you would spend on that would be better served doing this


                You keep making the mistake thinking that the their is depth to hitting a bag or throwing combinations.
                That you can get incite into this depth by hitting a bag.
                Its not a total waste, hitting a bag is good cardio but if you think its getting you any further than that your fooling yourself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                  Over the years, I've seen instructors go from "don't watch youtube, just do what I tell you," to "I want you to watch youtube, find new techniques, and experiment with them." This speaks volumes about what you can learn from supplemental instruction, such as books and videos.
                  Because these things make for great supplemental learning. Thing is you still need to come in and practice with someone in an alive manner fairly shortly after watching said video.
                  For example one couldn't say watch
                  All of Roy Deans stuff than show up to a gym and expect to have really picked anything up.

                  Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                  Even better than instructional videos, look at real fights. Pick up ideas that are combat-proven from those practitioners' execution.
                  This is very true, and one of the reasons I encourage beginners to watch matches instead of tech videos.

                  Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                  As far as drilling at home, alone, I think your best bet is to concentrate on proper execution of fundamental movements, not stringing together predetermined combos. Yes, you should be able to put together a combo, but that combo will have to be specific to your opponent when you use it. Shadowboxing, maybe?
                  I would say one should learn the fundamental movements in person first and get them down enough that they can be trusted to do them on their own.
                  Imperfect practice is not good for you.
                  Take the shrimp for example.
                  You can shrimp up and down your hall all day long, and that would be great if your shrimping right.
                  But lets say you where not, say you where shrimping some stupid ass way, one that allowed you to move up and down the hall but one that wouldn't let you do what a shrimp does while rolling.
                  You just practiced being wrong.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One more thing, you will be better when you finally do get around going to a real gym being Fit, than knowing how to hit a bag.
                    If your actually fit, you will have more time, energy, and focus, to spend on learning the stuff at the gym.
                    Be in a much better position than being like oh well I already know how to punch.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If you're looking into trick-centered TKD, you can probably learn from a tutorial online how to do some kind of fancy kick, just like you could probably learn a dance move from Youtube. But like everyone has said, that's not really related to fighting.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I suspect that watching champions demonstrate, explain, or perform the repertoire that they are known as the best at almost always provides some value.
                        Combine that with regular training sessions with good partners while being watched by a qualified coach, and you have a very powerful combination.
                        Many people on this board seem a bit "defensive" regarding suggesting that the regular class model is a superior model of sorts.
                        And it is true that the regular class model is a fine way to produce consistent result of a certain quality.
                        To achieve greatness, however, the work you do outside of class, including drilling, is often as or more important than the work you do in a regular "one size fits all class".
                        If I train someone for MMA or to go to a cash tournament or world tournament caliber event,
                        The amount of personal attention I arrange for them to get that is outside of a one size fits all class from myself and other bjj black belts, judo black belts, and wrestling coaches (and striking coaches if MMA) is huge.
                        They use the regular classes in those situations for watch me roll with several partners with different body types and stengths / specialties please coach sessions.
                        Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 3/09/2016 12:20pm, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                          Combine that with regular training sessions with good partners while being watched by a qualified coach, and you have a very powerful combinations.
                          No one here disputes this, however the thing that you keep missing when we talk about online classes is that the regular training sessions are the missing component. In this very case its seriously missing.

                          Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                          Many people on this board are very "defensive" regarding suggesting that the regular class model is a superior model of sorts.
                          You could not be any more wrong that this statement.
                          No one is arguing against supplementation of regular class training with online training.
                          We keep arguing against replacing it with online training.
                          This little detail you keep on willfully ignoring.
                          You cannot replace the regular class training with online training.


                          You really need to stop muddying up these waters with this nonsense.

                          Online supplementation is great once you have the base learning required to make use of it.
                          what it is not and will not be is a replacement for regular training.

                          In this case the guy doesn't have access to the regular training or partners.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            No one here disputes this, however the thing that you keep missing when we talk about online classes is that the regular training sessions are the missing component. In this very case its seriously missing.


                            You could not be any more wrong that this statement.
                            No one is arguing against supplementation of regular class training with online training.
                            We keep arguing against replacing it with online training.
                            This little detail you keep on willfully ignoring.
                            You cannot replace the regular class training with online training.


                            You really need to stop muddying up these waters with this nonsense.

                            Online supplementation is great once you have the base learning required to make use of it.
                            what it is not and will not be is a replacement for regular training.

                            In this case the guy doesn't have access to the regular training or partners.
                            Success depends on what the goal is, and how success will be measured.

                            I love it when my students also have garage academies and drill regularly out of class - so long as they are not hurting each other.
                            And I love it when they watch DVDs from champions.
                            I also spend a lot of time with people dealing with cancer, or that have become paralyzed, or are wounded vets.
                            It is awesome when people do what they can do, when they can do it, and how they can do it, when we are talking about positive activities.
                            And, I like my competitors to get as much serious drill time in outside of regular class as they spend time in regular class.
                            I also send them to catch time with other coaches than myself, particularly if those other coaches are specialists in areas.
                            Do what you like, I have explained what I do, and the only negatives that ever come about where when a couple of blue belts opted to roll instead of drill unsupervised and hurt themselves doing what we all occasionally do sometimes - act like a knucklehead by cranking something too hard or not tapping soon enough etc.
                            But the percentages of those negative outcomes have pretty low.
                            I also love hosting or sending my guys to open mats where people from all different academies, grappling styles, etc go and roll together.
                            I like a little chaos, and encouraging people to get exposed to other models, and other outlooks.
                            Like I said, do what you want.
                            I myself am amazed by the Youtube and Facebook videos put out by Champions.
                            We offer three regular bjj/judo/wrestling classes a day at the school that I spend the most time with,
                            And my other students schools usually also offer lunch and evening grappling classes M-F.
                            Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 3/09/2016 12:46pm, .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                              Success depends on what the goal is, and how success will be measured.

                              I love it when my students also have garage academies and drill regularly out of class - so long as they are not hurting each other.
                              And I love it when they watch DVDs from champions.
                              I also spend a lot of time with people dealing with cancer, or that have become paralyzed, or are wounded vets.
                              It is awesome when people do what they can do, when they can do it, and how they can do it, when we are talking about positive activities.
                              And, I like my competitors to get as much serious drill time in outside of regular class as they spend time in regular class.
                              I also send them to catch time with other coaches than myself, particularly if they are specialists in areas.
                              Do what you like, I have explained what I do, and the only negatives that ever come about where a couple of blue belts opted to roll instead of drill unsupervised and hurt themselves doing what we all occasionally do sometimes - act like a knucklehead by cranking something too hard or not tapping soon enough etc.
                              But the percentages of those negative outcomes have pretty low.
                              I also love hosting or sending my guys to open mats where people from all different academies, grappling styles, etc go and roll together.
                              I like a little chaos, and encouraging people to get exposed to other models, and other outlooks.
                              Like I said, do what you want.
                              I myself am amazed by the Youtube and Facebook videos put out by Champions.
                              We offer three regular classes a day at the school that I spend the most time with,
                              And my other students schools usually also offer lunch and evening grappling classes M-F.
                              and once again this has fuck all to do with what I or others have said.

                              I know your position and I actually agree with it.
                              The problem is your position isn't relative to this conversation.
                              Please make your position relative if you want to give it.

                              This thread is about a guy that wants to train online ONLY and he isn't training with his buddies either.
                              Respond to that, not your self indulgent bullshit.

                              Comment

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