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Whatever happened to old fashioned, Japanese Jiu Jitsu?

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    #91
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    So....Judo?
    That's one of the forms it can take, sure.

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      #92
      Originally posted by The Villain View Post
      That's one of the forms it can take, sure.
      So....
      BJJ
      SAMBO
      Small Circle JJ
      Shingitai JJ
      Koga Arrest and Control
      Dog Brother's Real Stick Combat
      or one of the many forms of MMA?
      Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
      –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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        #93
        Originally posted by BJMills View Post
        The Bujinkan seems to have gotten away with it.
        Exactly. Does that emphasise lineage then? I guess in which case Budo Taijutsu, and Juko-ryu are modern creations/fabrications in the JJ tree that merrits on the reputation of their founders.

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          #94
          Regarding lineage, I find this short article by Ellis Amdur interesting.

          The Importance of Paper in Japanese Martial Traditions

          Comment


            #95
            The Bujinkan- and its offshoots- are sort of a special case. They pretend to be koryu but also pretend to be deadly modern day RBSD... And they pretend to be ninjas... And a lot of them pretend they don't eat way too much fried chicken... come to think of it the Bujinkan pretends a lot of things. But hell, every rodeo has a clown.

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              #96
              Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
              AIKIDO

              Lineage?
              The founder of Aikido was trained by a Daito Ryu master.
              There are serious doubts about Daito Ryu being a Koryu Ruyha.

              Verifiable Years of Practice?
              In the style I have trained, I'd say it takes about 15 years of practise/Godan rank for knowing and being able to demonstrate satisfactorily the complete curriculum.

              Ability to have effective execution in the context of that art against resisting opponents?
              Never heard about any style of Aikido, and there are many, where this is required.

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                #97
                The founder of aikido lost all his family's money at least once, prompting his wife to manage household funds.

                He also gave his Daito Ryu teach half of a mountain his family owned in order to learn a variation of waki gatame.

                Most resistance training in aikido training is of a static nature. When it becomes more alive resistance it looks like a no rules judo randori....not that there's anything wrong with that.

                Striking in aikido is generally quite poor.

                Your looking at 4-8 years for black belt status, but with the understanding that black belt means you are now a serious student, not a master...so it's not really a comparative rank to BJJ. Really the colored belt ranks are totally arbitrary and were invented, or at least put into popular use, by Jigoro Kano.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  #98
                  Originally posted by daishi View Post
                  The founder of aikido lost all his family's money at least once, prompting his wife to manage household funds.


                  He also gave his Daito Ryu teach half of a mountain his family owned in order to learn a variation of waki gatame.


                  Most resistance training in aikido training is of a static nature. When it becomes more alive resistance it looks like a no rules judo randori....not that there's anything wrong with that.


                  Striking in aikido is generally quite poor.


                  Your looking at 4-8 years for black belt status, but with the understanding that black belt means you are now a serious student, not a master...so it's not really a comparative rank to BJJ. Really the colored belt ranks are totally arbitrary and were invented, or at least put into popular use, by Jigoro Kano.




                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  The black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu does not imply that you are master either.
                  It simply means that you are qualified to compete as a black belt,
                  and that you are qualified to teach the basics,
                  and it is implied that you are a specialist in a couple areas.

                  It takes about ten years of regular practice to gain basic mastery of a skill.
                  But, BJJ is a collection of several games/skills.
                  So, generally a black belt has a couple games that he/she is very good at,
                  and has a good understanding of the basic games in the areas in which he or she is not a specialist.

                  However, each subsequent decade as a BJJ black belt does leave one time to specialize in additional games/skill areas.
                  Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 2/14/2016 4:39pm, .

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                    #99
                    Originally posted by daishi View Post
                    Most resistance training in aikido training is of a static nature. When it becomes more alive resistance it looks like a no rules judo randori....not that there's anything wrong with that.
                    When I trained in Tomiki Aikido we did randori training with rubber knives. It was pretty realistic in that you managed to pull off a technique about one stab in ten. Certainly gave you an idea of how hard it would be to really fight someone with a knife.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                      Probably a decent way to keep in shape and have fun without being too serious.
                      Better than sitting on a couch eating Doritos.
                      That reminds me I am out of Doritos.

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                        Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                        I think there should be levels of competition for all kinds of people. Maybe it's the old man in me, nowadays I value things that motivate people to stay fit and healthy as much as impart hand to hand combat skills.
                        I have pondered this a lot. I was complaining to my karate friends for example, that classes there nowadays are designed so that athletic drills are geared towards teenagers and guys in their early twenties doing lightning fast ura-mawashi with minimal contact while the older guys do kata and more kata. A guy in his late 30s or early 40s would come and be made to pair with teenagers in doing lots of bouncing up and down constantly with full speed rushes that are not meant to hit hard. So the guys become frustrated at been made to feel like clumsy slowpokes by kids and they are not able to put in strength into anything, or they just do kata, so the result is that there are no people in those age ranges coming to karate anymore.

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                          I tend to think, especially with little or no contact, being paired with the kids is s good way to push yourself without getting hurt.

                          But I get the gist of what you're saying.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Dork Angel View Post
                            When I trained in Tomiki Aikido we did randori training with rubber knives. It was pretty realistic in that you managed to pull off a technique about one stab in ten. Certainly gave you an idea of how hard it would be to really fight someone with a knife.
                            Never fight anyone with a knife, if you can avoid it, do so. Contrary to training knife defence, the thing to remember is that the person with the knife will invariably stab at you like a Singer sewing machine. If you can evade the initial strike and nail 'em straight in the Face with an instant counter, then you've a chance. Personally, I'd be out the door double quick and as far up the road as i could go. In a reasonably confined space like a pub, pick up anything and everything and throw it at them as you head for the door. Just my opinion, though.

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                              This is a Mixed Arts tournament from 1995 that was some pretty good fighting in it, including JJJ. I'm not sure of the rules(whether or not only open-hand strikes were allowed, or whether the fighters did that to protect their hands).

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