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Whatever happened to old fashioned, Japanese Jiu Jitsu?

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    #31


    He fought BJ Penn.
    Dan Severn loves raping people.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post


      He fought BJ Penn.
      I've seen that one before. Definitely a step up from the other video. Looks like they don't stop the action every time a point is scored.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post


        He fought BJ Penn.
        I could beat his ass.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by FredEttishfan View Post
          I could beat his ass.
          Video proof please.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            Very true.
            I also would propose that any sort of "battlefield" art, falls into this sort of category in general.
            Then to compounded the issue with "koryu" JJJ is that the arts being handed down have something lost in translation as many of those people obviously never saw a battlefield much less a pre-Meiji restoration battlefield.
            Lets not forget that the Samurai from lets say from the Edo period forward where not really testing their arts.
            When was dueling done away with in Japan? Edit: I googled it. It was outlawed in the 1880's.
            The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

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              #36
              This is probably the best place to ask this: In 1969, there was this yellow book. It had all kinds of illustrations on practical jui jitsu (the easy way) for self defense. Anyone know of this book?

              It is not the orange book, "the compete kano jiu jitsu (judo)" book, published in 1961 which is copied from a 1905 manual, by Higashi and Hancock. This is a gem of a book.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by laserleftfoot View Post
                This is probably the best place to ask this: In 1969, there was this yellow book. It had all kinds of illustrations on practical jui jitsu (the easy way) for self defense. Anyone know of this book?

                It is not the orange book, "the compete kano jiu jitsu (judo)" book, published in 1961 which is copied from a 1905 manual, by Higashi and Hancock. This is a gem of a book.
                Might be "Jiu Jitsu Complete" by Kiyose Nakae - http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Hardc.../dp/B000JYA2BY. I probably still have a copy in storage. IIRC it offered a sort of "multiple choice" set of technical options based on how an opponent was likely to react to any given technique; very innovative for its day.
                Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                  I don't disagree with you but, you know, if you're a hobbiest who likes competing but doesn't have the time or desire to put yourself through the rigors of mma training... It's all good.

                  Probably a decent way to keep in shape and have fun without being too serious.

                  Better than sitting on a couch eating Doritos.
                  Maybe, but it seems like plenty of serious MMA gyms have programs to cater to a hobbyist, otherwise most of us wouldn't be training. In this case, the outcome may be the same for the student, but the MMA lite guy sees what real training looks like, maybe partners up with real fighters occasionally, and understands exactly where he stands. If that distinction is drawn in a JJJ dojo, fine, but historically, it's more likely the students' egos will get fluffed up with Tales of Teh deadly.
                  "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

                  Originally posted by strikistanian
                  DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
                  Originally posted by Devil
                  Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
                  Originally posted by Plasma
                  At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
                  Originally posted by SoulMechanic
                  Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by ermghoti View Post
                    Maybe, but it seems like plenty of serious MMA gyms have programs to cater to a hobbyist, otherwise most of us wouldn't be training. In this case, the outcome may be the same for the student, but the MMA lite guy sees what real training looks like, maybe partners up with real fighters occasionally, and understands exactly where he stands. If that distinction is drawn in a JJJ dojo, fine, but historically, it's more likely the students' egos will get fluffed up with Tales of Teh deadly.
                    Again I don't disagree with you. I train at an mma gym as a hobbyist. I'm in my 40s and have zero desire to compete anymore. Still love to spar and roll, but honestly I don't think my body could handle a full training camp. Nowadays I just enjoy the training.

                    I have a few friends who are my age and still do karate. They still enjoy going to tournaments because competition is fun. There response when I say 'come try mma,' is 'I'm too old and it's too hardcore for me.'

                    I guess that colors my perception. I think there should be levels of competition for all kinds of people. Maybe it's the old man in me, nowadays I value things that motivate people to stay fit and healthy as much as impart hand to hand combat skills.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Might be "Jiu Jitsu Complete" by Kiyose Nakae - http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Hardc.../dp/B000JYA2BY. I probably still have a copy in storage. IIRC it offered a sort of "multiple choice" set of technical options based on how an opponent was likely to react to any given technique; very innovative for its day.

                      Thanks! Is this the same book that has the pencil between the fingers technique? and the technique where you push on someone's right shoulder to their left so their right foot lifts, do a minor sweep to their right foot to their left while pulling their shoulder back to the right, and they hit the floor like a ton of bricks? Great fun for people of all sizes!!

                      Answered my own question. The internet is great for getting information. http://bujutsulibrary5.tripod.com/Ji...Nakae_1958.pdf
                      Last edited by laserleftfoot; 2/06/2016 11:55am, .

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by BJMills View Post
                        I don't disagree with you but, you know, if you're a hobbiest who likes competing but doesn't have the time or desire to put yourself through the rigors of mma training... It's all good.

                        Probably a decent way to keep in shape and have fun without being too serious.

                        Better than sitting on a couch eating Doritos.
                        I'm guessing that there aren't restrictions on the style of striking used, other than elbows/knees, which I can understand as that gets quite a bit more dangerous/potentially damaging, especially when applied to people's heads, LOL.

                        I think that using more of a boxing style of striking would be more realistic. You can tell that most of them arent' used to getting face-punched. but I did see some nice distance closing and countering action, regardless.
                        Falling for Judo since 1980

                        "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                        "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                        "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                          This has a bit to do with a topic that has been of interest to me. In the UK JJJ seems to be mosty influenced by the WJJF, which I gathered from Bullshido is shite from a made up syllabus from Robert Clarke with a dodgy 'Juko-ryu' lineage that's not Koryu. I'm interested in the history because I occasionally train in a JJJ style called 'Tai Jutsu,'(non booj)

                          An older poster by the user name Bran Lydster made a few posts about it. Basically it's his same style further developed by a man Jack McKeown, a Judoka&boxer who added elements of Muay Thai for practicality. The same style his student from here Billy Murray, who went onto being a 4 time world kickboxing champ in. Thing is though, at one stage Jack and Robert Clarke were affiliated, so I've no clue how much of that Juko-ryu has to do with my lineage. Bran Lydster (Brian) taught two of my former MMA coaches, and before MMA 'Northern Ireland Tai Jutsu' was basically the closest thing resembling it. Many brought up in it now also do MMA, BJJ, and Muay Thai, but I at least think it is a good self defense style that has a traditional element as well. If anyone knows more I'd apreciate the knowledge as I'd like to know if it has any legit Koyru affiliation at all, or some made up British hybrid.

                          There's also a style called Taijutsu Kai JJ that started some of the early JJ Kumites in the UK fighters like Joseph Duffy and John Kavanagh were involved in . Those guys were some of the 1st from here to seek out BJJ as well. I think they're Koyru, but I'm still trying to research when I can.
                          I remember training beside you guys in comber. I think it was Gary McAllister ran that club. Our clubs split from Robert Clarke/Mark Noble back in the 80's and we kind of affiliated with Jack McKeown. I remember when Sport Jujitsu was starting and we were still trying to iron out the rules. It's all a bit hazy now but I think I remember no strikes to the head and no strikes on the ground. If you got a throw/takedown you only had 10 seconds to get a submission or you were separated and stood back up. You were scored in your striking (8, 9 or 10) and there were points for throws (3) and takedowns (1). RNC counted as a KO or you could take some points and carry on.

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                            #43
                            Thanks for all the answers. One of my assumptions was that LEO's use a lot of restraint techniques, and that would seem to be a preferred, niche art, not necessarily a one size fits all. I had wondered, did something supplement that for wrist locks (Aikido, standup stuff in BJJ). I certainly didn't think that JJJ was the deadly, and Judo is a much more alive art. One other question, is Judo making a comeback, or has BJJ pretty much eaten it's lunch? By comeback I mean schools opening up, etc.
                            "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by new2bjj View Post
                              Thanks for all the answers. One of my assumptions was that LEO's use a lot of restraint techniques, and that would seem to be a preferred, niche art, not necessarily a one size fits all. I had wondered, did something supplement that for wrist locks (Aikido, standup stuff in BJJ). I certainly didn't think that JJJ was the deadly, and Judo is a much more alive art. One other question, is Judo making a comeback, or has BJJ pretty much eaten it's lunch? By comeback I mean schools opening up, etc.
                              Everything cycles in and out of fashion.

                              I love BJJ, and I also love Judo and Wrestling.

                              Judo is an Olympic sport, one of the most practiced sports in the World.

                              It's not going anywhere.

                              The IJF has made some very controversial moves regarding the leg grab and kata garuma techniques,

                              and many Judo federations seem, in my opinion, to be repeating the ancient Kodokan mistake of threatening to throw their top athletes out if they cross compete in other grappling events and/or MMA.

                              The US Judo organizations also still seem to suffer from political issues, and seem to reward those skilled with paper, networking, and large paying class headcount over giving equal support to those teaching Judo for free at Boys and Girls Clubs, where it is a chore to raise money to get the kids Gi's let alone the yearly org fee for each kid.

                              But, despite all of those challenges, Judo endures. It is a beautiful educational philosophy, and an awesome martial art and sport.

                              In the US, Judo competes with a lot of other better funded sports for funding and participation.

                              But, the Judo of Japan, Russia, Korea, Brazil, France, all the Eastern European states (so many places), is just outstanding in terms of athlete development and execution.

                              And, I don't mean to disparage the accomplishments of the US Judo athletes, especially since the US finally won a gold meal in the Olympics in Judo.

                              I am just saying that in the US, there are many other sports that compete for marketshare and mindshare compared to other places in the World where Judo is considered a top tier sport, often right after Soccer in South America (including Brazil), and right after Baseball in Japan and Korea (I am not aware of how Judo and Tae Kwon Do compete for adult marketshare in Korea, but I can say that their national Judo/Yudo stable is awesome).
                              Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 2/06/2016 1:54pm, .

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                                This has a bit to do with a topic that has been of interest to me. In the UK JJJ seems to be mosty influenced by the WJJF, which I gathered from Bullshido is shite from a made up syllabus from Robert Clarke with a dodgy 'Juko-ryu' lineage that's not Koryu. I'm interested in the history because I occasionally train in a JJJ style called 'Tai Jutsu,'(non booj)

                                An older poster by the user name Bran Lydster made a few posts about it. Basically it's his same style further developed by a man Jack McKeown, a Judoka&boxer who added elements of Muay Thai for practicality. The same style his student from here Billy Murray, who went onto being a 4 time world kickboxing champ in. Thing is though, at one stage Jack and Robert Clarke were affiliated, so I've no clue how much of that Juko-ryu has to do with my lineage. Bran Lydster (Brian) taught two of my former MMA coaches, and before MMA 'Northern Ireland Tai Jutsu' was basically the closest thing resembling it. Many brought up in it now also do MMA, BJJ, and Muay Thai, but I at least think it is a good self defense style that has a traditional element as well. If anyone knows more I'd apreciate the knowledge as I'd like to know if it has any legit Koyru affiliation at all, or some made up British hybrid.

                                There's also a style called Taijutsu Kai JJ that started some of the early JJ Kumites in the UK fighters like Joseph Duffy and John Kavanagh were involved in . Those guys were some of the 1st from here to seek out BJJ as well. I think they're Koyru, but I'm still trying to research when I can.
                                Mr. Ulsteryank,
                                I don't think it was the same thing, but here in the US, one of my Judo instructors from 20 years ago, Sensei Rene Duchesne (RIP), used to practice something called Tai Jutsu as well.
                                His Tai Jutsu seemed to be a system of doing nasty things to you that were not legal under Judo rules.
                                I was too stupid to take the time to learn any of the Tai Jutsu from him, however,
                                because all I had eyes for at the time was (G)BJJ, competitive Judo, Wrestling, and Vale Tudo competition specific type stuff.
                                I seemed to recall that it seemed to hurt when he demonstrated the Tai Jutsu techniques though.
                                He had a reputation for being a real ass kicker when he wanted to be.
                                I now regret my ignorance and snobbery because I missed an opportunity to learn something else potentially precious from him before he died.
                                Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 2/06/2016 2:07pm, .

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