Five Hard Truths about Martial Arts that you don’t want to believe.

[Michael Tzadok]

Moving away from teamwork training,I do genuinely wonder if you must train for the long term if all you care about is self-defense and you don't really have a passion for martial arts. I believe there are several stories out there of people with limited training successfully defending themselves/winning a fight. In particular,the Gracie Academy has several such stories:
http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/st...ight-story.asp
http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/gr...the-street.asp
(You can navigate the site for more but here's what I found now. There's also the Gracie bully-proof stories if its of any interest,lol)

I would think that 1-2 years of proper full-contact martial arts training will make most average joes competent enough to deal with most low-level violence they'll run into for a lifetime,but I can't say for sure. I guess it completely depends on the individual.

The first link is someone who hasn't trained in 3yrs, but had previously attained a blue belt.

The second link seems to indicate that the guy is still a current and active student.

Anyway, what you are dealing with are perishable skills that degrade and depreciate over time. The amount to which that happens and the speed at which that happens is highly dependent upon multiple variables, and so said skills degrade at a generally unpredictable rate, though most scholarly sources give them a 3-4yr shelf life(your one long term example given in links falls within that period). So if self defense is your goal and you are fine with flipping the coin so to speak as whether or not you will be one of the naturally talented edge cases that can learn a couple of years and then still be able to kick ass a decade later, well... we all have to make our choices.

That being said, I'll say it again, you have a 0.32% chance of being involved in any sort of violent crime based on FBI 2015 statistics. If we narrow that down to an actual assault(and remove things that you can walk away from such as crimes of profit) your chances of being involved in a physical altercation become even more minuscule. So honestly self defense is probably the last reason you should consider learning a martial art. Better reasons would be human interaction with people who have similar interests, health and fitness, fun ect, and down toward the bottom of the list would be self defense. 1 in 4 Americans will die of a preventable heart attack this year. 1 in 3 Americans are classified as overweight or obese, 1 in 20 are classified as extremely obese. Not becoming a part of that statistic ought to be enough reason to join an active martial art.

Honestly if you don't like getting hit in the head and can't stand having your face rubbed in a mat, take up something active like Kendo. It would be a lot better than sitting on your couch and playing video games, and so long as you practice common sense conflict avoidance techniques that they teach the Boy Scouts in Safety Merit Badge you will most likely never be in a fight in your life.

[Yosuke]

The first link is someone who hasn't trained in 3yrs, but had previously attained a blue belt.

The second link seems to indicate that the guy is still a current and active student.

Anyway, what you are dealing with are perishable skills that degrade and depreciate over time. The amount to which that happens and the speed at which that happens is highly dependent upon multiple variables, and so said skills degrade at a generally unpredictable rate, though most scholarly sources give them a 3-4yr shelf life(your one long term example given in links falls within that period). So if self defense is your goal and you are fine with flipping the coin so to speak as whether or not you will be one of the naturally talented edge cases that can learn a couple of years and then still be able to kick ass a decade later, well... we all have to make our choices.

That being said, I'll say it again, you have a 0.32% chance of being involved in any sort of violent crime based on FBI 2015 statistics. If we narrow that down to an actual assault(and remove things that you can walk away from such as crimes of profit) your chances of being involved in a physical altercation become even more minuscule. So honestly self defense is probably the last reason you should consider learning a martial art. Better reasons would be human interaction with people who have similar interests, health and fitness, fun ect, and down toward the bottom of the list would be self defense. 1 in 4 Americans will die of a preventable heart attack this year. 1 in 3 Americans are classified as overweight or obese, 1 in 20 are classified as extremely obese. Not becoming a part of that statistic ought to be enough reason to join an active martial art.

Honestly if you don't like getting hit in the head and can't stand having your face rubbed in a mat, take up something active like Kendo. It would be a lot better than sitting on your couch and playing video games, and so long as you practice common sense conflict avoidance techniques that they teach the Boy Scouts in Safety Merit Badge you will most likely never be in a fight in your life.

Yeah,those reasons you mention are largely why I still retained an interest in Martial arts,even though I'm unlikely to find myself in a serious physical conflict again. I'll be going to a Gracie Academy at some time soon(hopefully,I've got some things to take care of first),I don't know whether I'll like it or not,but I'll never be able to stop thinking about it if I don't try it.

I've only had 30 sessions(a month's worth)of boxing training several years ago,but I did find myself liking the training despite being exhausting. I actually sparred at the very end of the 30th session with another beginner(more experienced than me though)who insisted on it. The trainers weren't around for the moment and I decided to accept(not the smartest decision I've made,but I don't regret it. you'll see why)
the reason being is that I wanted to see early on whether I'm cut out for this kind of stuff,and because I sincerely wanted to confirm if my chin is good or not(I'll get back to this in a sec)

When the sparring started,I was honestly timid/gun-shy. the reason being is that I didn't know how hard I was supposed to go,as no one was supervising us.(I didn't want to cause a gym war by accidentally hitting him too hard. I've seen a lot of youtube sparring videos where one guy accidentally hits another guy too hard,tempers flare up and the sparring turns into a real fight. that's the last thing I wanted) I was mostly throwing jabs and being defensive while the dude was hitting me with painful shots. (to this day,I still can't tell if he was hitting me with full power or not. while the punches hurt,none of them were hard enough to incapacitate me.)

Once we got to round 3(final round,I was also beginning to exhaust)however,the guy told me to hit him hard,and I thought "Oh well,if it turns into a war,the sparring and session will soon be over anyway" and so at some point during the round,I hit him with a 1-2 combination,and the guy made a "holy shit" face expression (My trainers have always told me I hit hard. well,I'm glad to know that's true and not just fake compliments,haha.)and then he went to the ropes to try and copy Muhammad Ali's "rope-a-dope" technique while I was trying to hit him until the round was over. (it was hilarious)

No hard feelings between us though and I was able to do the rest of my workout because I was adrenalized from the sparring. I consider it a good experience,since I not only satisfied my underlying questions but because it would then be years before I will ever step foot back in the boxing gym again. (If I didn't spar,I would have missed such an opportunity)

So there you have it,my first real/mutual sparring match(albeit unofficial/unauthorized. I've had sparring sessions with my trainers where they were only defending and not fighting back. they told me to go all out and they were really good at dodging/defending,but I don't think think you can really call them real sparring. is this a common practice among beginning boxers?)

[ermghoti]

1 in 4 Americans will die of a preventable heart attack this year.

So the country will be completely empty in four years? Damn it, I got into real estate too soon.

[DCS]

Tzadok got the citation wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statis...rt_disease.pdf

[BKR]

Moving away from teamwork training,I do genuinely wonder if you must train for the long term if all you care about is self-defense and you don't really have a passion for martial arts. I believe there are several stories out there of people with limited training successfully defending themselves/winning a fight. In particular,the Gracie Academy has several such stories:
http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/st...ight-story.asp
http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/gr...the-street.asp
(You can navigate the site for more but here's what I found now. There's also the Gracie bully-proof stories if its of any interest,lol)

I would think that 1-2 years of proper full-contact martial arts training will make most average joes competent enough to deal with most low-level violence they'll run into for a lifetime,but I can't say for sure. I guess it completely depends on the individual.

Skills are perishable, and rather quickly at that, especially for someone who only trains for a year or two. A year or two of the type of training most people can afford (time and money and physical wear and tear) is maybe 2-3 times a week, more likely 2.

A focus on staying out of trouble/de-escalation, and firearms or less than lethal (OC spray training (if legal) would be more useful than H2H training.

1 or 2 years would be better than nothing. Maybe with once a week or 2x a month training that might work better than being a couch potato...

[Michael Tzadok]

Tzadok got the citation wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statis...rt_disease.pdf

You are right, I did. Thanks for catching that.

[ChenPengFi]

This is a bit off topic, but the coordination and training together thing brought to mind something else.

A lot of folks think that if the military (or highly trained LEO) goes after them (and I'm talking about in the USA) for some reason, they will be able to prevail...because you know, we have ARs and some training.

Although I admire the sentiment of resisting tyranny with force if need be, I'm not under any illusions that such a "stand" would be successful, especially in the long run, for the reasons you outlined: training in coordinated attacks requires a LOT of time and practice, and is perishable. Of course, any training is perishable, something that many if not most, teachers of self defense and RBSD seem to either not know, forget, or conveniently ignore in order to make money.

You know, I heard about this place called Afghanistan, and Viet Nam comes to mind too.

[goodlun]

Skills are perishable, and rather quickly at that

God damn this fact, I would actually be a rather decent grappler if this wasn't the case...

[ermghoti]

Tzadok got the citation wrong.

http://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statis...rt_disease.pdf

I knew that, I was just being an ass. As usual.

[ViolentTendency]

That being said, I'll say it again, you have a 0.32% chance of being involved in any sort of violent crime based on FBI 2015 statistics. If we narrow that down to an actual assault(and remove things that you can walk away from such as crimes of profit) your chances of being involved in a physical altercation become even more minuscule.

I have been involved (allegedly) in hundreds of violent crimes, on both sides of the coin. That doesn't sound like a 0.32% chance to me.

Violence is a fascinating creature in a lot of ways. People say stupid things like "violence never solves anything" for example, but the whole fuckin reason people keep using it is because it literally solves everything. Even the way the State deals with the problem of individuals using violence to solve their own problems, is through violence by proxy or the threat of greater violence. Who has the bigger stick and all of that.

Beyond that, violence is also addictive as fuck. It feels very, very good... Well, when you're on the giving end. Not always so much on the receiving end. There is a moment, I am sure many others here know what I am talking about, when you are really beating someone good and they hit this point where their whole body relaxes, they stop trying to protect themselves or defend themselves at all... Just go kind of limp and their eyes zone out like they're on drugs or something. It's like a thousand yard stare. I know that look, I've felt what it's like to be in that state as well as put someone else into it. When you are the one doing it, it's a Godlike feeling. Your enemy is totally and entirely beaten. You have broken him. They have completely given up, and stopped caring. Nothing else on earth can give you that feeling, and it's incredibly empowering.

For myself, I kept finding myself with enough time on my hands to quietly reflect on some of my choices in life, and ended up seeking out martial arts as a way to positively express myself and seek at least a diluted form of this rush. Some of it is in your own mindset and attitude, too, I think. A man taps, he's submitted to you... You've achieved the same complete and total victory only you've done it in a positive manner that's not victimizing your fellow man. Outside of certain other bonds, some of my closest and most loyal friends have come through martial arts. Anyway, so like I say I went in a positive direction in the end with this, but I know the taste of that "high" intimately and I know there are so many people walking around all around us who want nothing more than to chase it. We're a predatory species at heart, when we let ourselves devolve into a more animalistic state of mind.

Some people will use violence to get something from you. Sometimes, the thing they want from you is simply the rush of breaking you. Homo homine lupus est.

[submessenger]

I have been involved (allegedly) in hundreds of violent crimes, on both sides of the coin.
...
Homo homine lupus est.

Oh, please, do share. Also, you spelled homini incorrectly.

[PDA]

I have been involved (allegedly) in hundreds of violent crimes, on both sides of the coin. That doesn't sound like a 0.32% chance to me.

Violence is a fascinating creature in a lot of ways. People say stupid things like "violence never solves anything" for example, but the whole fuckin reason people keep using it is because it literally solves everything. Even the way the State deals with the problem of individuals using violence to solve their own problems, is through violence by proxy or the threat of greater violence. Who has the bigger stick and all of that.

Beyond that, violence is also addictive as fuck. It feels very, very good... Well, when you're on the giving end. Not always so much on the receiving end. There is a moment, I am sure many others here know what I am talking about, when you are really beating someone good and they hit this point where their whole body relaxes, they stop trying to protect themselves or defend themselves at all... Just go kind of limp and their eyes zone out like they're on drugs or something. It's like a thousand yard stare. I know that look, I've felt what it's like to be in that state as well as put someone else into it. When you are the one doing it, it's a Godlike feeling. Your enemy is totally and entirely beaten. You have broken him. They have completely given up, and stopped caring. Nothing else on earth can give you that feeling, and it's incredibly empowering.

For myself, I kept finding myself with enough time on my hands to quietly reflect on some of my choices in life, and ended up seeking out martial arts as a way to positively express myself and seek at least a diluted form of this rush. Some of it is in your own mindset and attitude, too, I think. A man taps, he's submitted to you... You've achieved the same complete and total victory only you've done it in a positive manner that's not victimizing your fellow man. Outside of certain other bonds, some of my closest and most loyal friends have come through martial arts. Anyway, so like I say I went in a positive direction in the end with this, but I know the taste of that "high" intimately and I know there are so many people walking around all around us who want nothing more than to chase it. We're a predatory species at heart, when we let ourselves devolve into a more animalistic state of mind.

Some people will use violence to get something from you. Sometimes, the thing they want from you is simply the rush of breaking you. Homo homine lupus est.

Ok thanks for sharing (FRAT)

What were we talking about?

[ermghoti]

I have been involved (allegedly) in hundreds of violent crimes, on both sides of the coin. That doesn't sound like a 0.32% chance to me.

Your chance of being in a car accident goes up if you drive on the wrong side of the road with your lights off.

People say stupid things like "violence never solves anything" for example, but the whole fuckin reason people keep using it is because it literally solves everything.

People say that because they don't believe being convicted of a felony is a solution to anything.

[ViolentTendency]

Oh, please, do share. Also, you spelled homini incorrectly.

It's alluded to in some of my other posts. Also, I didn't spell it wrong I declined it wrong. My bad.

EDIT: Submessenger just to make sure I'm not coming across as an asshole. I have lived my entire life in the "1%" of people who live by different norms than regular society. It's simply the way it is. I make no apologies for it, no concessions for it, and see nothing wrong with it. I have never seen any valid critic with any valid connection or membership within any legitimate club, so anything bad you've heard probably isn't true. It's a good community but it does require that you hold your own. Now, you'll call me a liar, and I can provide conviction records going back to juvenile offences in the 1970s, but honestly I don't care that much.

Also, I am sure that on a site like this I must be far from the only one to have done time. We all make youthful indiscretions. Fights happen constantly inside.

Damnit I don't know how to multiquote??

Right, anyway - Submessenger where are you from? We can maybe look to do a throwdown. Rules I require are it doesn't end until BOTH parties say so. So either you, or me, might be asking for it to stop... But it doesn't end until the other guy says so too. It's the way we do things. Mainly because we don't breed geldings. PM me to tee things up.

[ViolentTendency]

Your chance of being in a car accident goes up if you drive on the wrong side of the road with your lights off.



People say that because they don't believe being convicted of a felony is a solution to anything.

You're missing my point. Accepting a felony conviction, or the authority of the state at all to impose upon you any consequence of any kind, is done by... what? Implicit coercion at the very least. It's not as though we are all politely asked and may decline, is it? Think about it.