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Five Hard Truths about Martial Arts that you donít want to believe.

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    Originally posted by DCS View Post
    Maybe always was. The following is from Karl Friday


    Issai Chozan's eighteenth century martial art parable, Neko no myoojutsu ("The cat's eerie skill"), for example, portrayed a vision of ultimate martial prowess that entailed being in such perfect harmony with the natural order that one transcended any need or desire to fight.

    But Issai and his mid-Tokugawa contemporaries were scarcely the first to contend that martial training can and should reach beyond physical skills and technical expertise. Sixteenth century instructional writings, as well as early 17th century texts...suggest that this notion was already well established during the late Sengoku era. Careful consideration of the circumstances, under which the ryuuha bugei first appeared, moreover, strongly suggests that these arts were never meant to the straightforward tools of war—that, visions of martial art as a vehicle to broad personal education shaped and characterized this phenomenon from it's nascence.

    It is clear, first of all, that ryuuha bugei could not have accounted for more than a tiny portion of 16th century military training. Estimates based on surviving documentation from the period suggest that there were at most a few dozen ryuuha around during the 16th Century. Armies of that era, however, regularly mobilized tens of thousands of men….

    Ryuuha bugei must, therefore, have been a specialized activity pursued by only a minute percentage of Sengoku warriors.

    Nor did the skills that late medieval bugeisha concentrated on developing have a great deal of direct applicability to 16th century warfare. In fact, even the earliest ryuuha bugei were, at best, anachronistic in this regard….

    Thus, ryuuha bugei, which focused on developing prowess and personal combat, emerged and flourished in almost inverse proportion to the value of skilled individual fighters on the battlefield. Moreover, the weapon that played the most prominent role in this new phenomenon--the Sword--played a decidedly minor role in medieval warfare. Swords never became a key battlefield armament in Japan. They were, rather, supplementary weapons analogous to the side arms worn by modern soldiers. While they were also employed in combat, they were used far more often in street fights, robberies, assassinations and other (off battlefield) civil disturbances. Missile weapons--arrows, rocks and later bullets—dominated battles throughout the medieval period. Scholars and popular audiences alike have shown a remarkable reluctance to accept this reality and have attended instead to confound the symbolic importance of the sword to early modern bushi identity with prominence in medieval battles….

    Why did ryuuha bugei emerge when they did--at a time when generalship, the ability to organize and direct large forces was rapidly coming to overshadow personal martial skills as the decisive element in battle, and the key to a successful military career? Why were there so few ryuuha bugei around during the Sengoku period and why did they proliferate so rapidly during the early Tokugawa period after the age of wars had passed?....

    All these questions become much easier to answer if one sets aside the premise that ryuuha bugei originated as instruments for teaching workaday techniques of the battlefield. And indeed, there is little basis for that hoary assumption, beyond the fact that war was endemic in Japan when the first martial art schools appeared. The received wisdom rests, in other words, on post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacy.

    A growing body of evidence, on the other hand, points to the conclusion that ryuuha bugei and the pedagogical devices associated with it aimed from the start at conveying more abstract ideals of self-development and enlightenment. That is, there was no fundamental shift of purpose in martial art education between the late 16th and mid 17th centuries. Tokugawa period Budoo represented not a metamorphosis of late medieval martial art, but the maturation of it. Ryuuha bugei itself constituted a new phenomenon--a derivative, not a linear improvement, of earlier, more prosaic military training….

    More importantly, however, the martial and other arts also shared a sense of ultimate—true—purpose defined in the medieval Japanese concept of michi or path. This construct, born of implications drawn from a world view common to Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism, saw expertise in activities of all sorts--from games and sports to fine arts, from practical endeavors to religious factors--as possessing a universality deriving from its relationship to a common ultimate goal. It held concentrated specialization in any activity to be an equally valid route to attainment of universal truth asserting that all true paths must lead eventually to the same place and therefore complete mastery of even the most the trivial pursuits must yield the same rewards as can be found through the most profound. Ryuuha bugei, emerging in this cultural and most philosophically milieu, took its place alongside poetry, composition, incense judging, Noh drama, the tea ceremony, and numerous other michi….

    It fostered character traits and tactical acumen that made those who practice it better warriors, but it's goals and ideals were more akin to those of liberal education than vocational training. That is, bugeisha, even in the Sengoku period had more in common with Olympic marksmanship competitors--training with specialized weapons to develop a esoteric levels of skill under particularized conditions--than with Marine riflemen. They also had as much—perhaps more--in common with Tokugawa period and modern martial artists than with the ordinary warriors of their own day.

    Viewed in this light, the prominent role of the sword in medieval ryuuha bugei is much easier to understand. For, their secondary role in battlefield combat notwithstanding, swords achieved a singular status as heirlooms and symbols of power war, military skill and warrior identity….

    This representational functional reflected in the popularization of the term hyoohoo (or heihoo)--which until late medieval times designated military science or martial arts in the broad sense—as a synonym for kenjutsu….

    Specialization, formalization, and idealization of ryuuha bugei were not inherently deleterious to military preparedness, because this form of martial training had never been about readying troops for war. Military science writ large continued in the guise of Gungaku, while hyoohoo continued to focus on personal development ....

    By the 18th century, bushi who had not made and even trained seriously for war in generations, had lost sight of any separation between martial art and military training. Indeed ryuuha bugei had long since overshadowed and supplanted other kinds of soldierly drill. For the bushi of the mid Tokugawa period and later, there was but one form of sophisticated combative training: the individual-centered, self-development oriented arts of the various ryuuha....

    [This resulted in] the conviction that swordsmanship and other martial arts of the day descended directly from instruments of war, and that ryuuha bugei originated as vehicles to train warriors for battle….

    Ironically, the martial arts today are closer in role and character--particular in their perceived role and character--to their remote medieval progenitors than to their late Tokugawa parents.
    Thanks for that

    Comment


      Originally posted by BKR View Post
      Let's drill some ura nage together sometime. You get to be uke...
      I don't care if "kata" in Judo is just a term for drilling.

      You call it kata, therefore that automatically means you're a pussy.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
        I don't care if "kata" in Judo is just a term for drilling.

        You call it kata, therefore that automatically means you're a pussy.
        You may be devaluing a worthy real life item with that comparison.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
          I don't care if "kata" in Judo is just a term for drilling.

          You call it kata, therefore that automatically means you're a pussy.
          Thanks again for your thoughtful and insightful comments.

          Comment


            Originally posted by ksennin View Post
            You may be devaluing a worthy real life item with that comparison.
            Pussy doesn't mean vagina anymore.

            Comment


              Originally posted by DCS View Post
              Maybe always was. The following is from Karl Friday

              Wall of text, if done properly no can defence

              Comment


                Originally posted by BKR View Post
                The correct formula is: be as strong and fit as possible, and have the best "technique" possible. Technique covers a lot of ground...

                Getting as strong and fit as possible is the easier part, but the synergy between the two is undeniable.
                The synergy you mention I believe comes with time and continual practice, correct?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by kimjonghng View Post
                  The synergy you mention I believe comes with time and continual practice, correct?
                  True. With time and continual practise you can become really good at what you do, be that punching air or punching people...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ermghoti View Post
                    Much more reasonable. In fact, two or three marginally competent and determined people are probably a match for just about anyone. There just only so many tools and sensory inputs available on a human body, and the brain can only perform one task at a time.
                    Out of curiosity,is there any system that you know of that actually teaches how to most efficiently overwhelm someone USING superior numbers? (you are the one with the numbers advantage) I think only LEO's,SWAT teams,and Military are taught this,but there has to be a genuine video out there that gets into this.

                    BTW,when I use the word "most efficiently",I'm talking about minimizing the damage for everyone involved(including the dude being ganged up on. after all,sometimes we're just trying to subdue an unruly person,not beat them into hospitalization.)
                    Last edited by Yosuke; 10/22/2016 8:17am, . Reason: Clarification

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Yosuke View Post
                      Out of curiosity,is there any system that you know of that actually teaches how to most efficiently overwhelm someone with superior numbers? I think only LEO's,SWAT teams,and Military are taught this,but there has to be a genuine video out there that gets into this.

                      BTW,when I use the word "most efficiently",I'm talking about minimizing the damage for everyone involved(including the dude being ganged up on. after all,sometimes we're just trying to subdue an unruly person,not beat them into hospitalization.)
                      The martial art of sprinting.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Yosuke View Post
                        Out of curiosity,is there any system that you know of that actually teaches how to most efficiently overwhelm someone with superior numbers? I think only LEO's,SWAT teams,and Military are taught this,but there has to be a genuine video out there that gets into this.

                        BTW,when I use the word "most efficiently",I'm talking about minimizing the damage for everyone involved(including the dude being ganged up on. after all,sometimes we're just trying to subdue an unruly person,not beat them into hospitalization.)
                        Both Wing Chun and Ninjutsu cover this in great detail and success.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
                          The martial art of sprinting.
                          I think you misunderstood my comment,but I can see why. I'll edit my post. The question isn't about how to handle multiple attackers,but how to most efficiently take out a threat when YOU have the numbers advantage,while minimizing everyone's injuries(including the guy being ganged up on.)

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by PDA View Post
                            Both Wing Chun and Ninjutsu cover this in great detail and success.
                            Sorry,I didn't word that correctly. I edited the post. Its you with the numbers advantage and trying to subdue the guy while minimizing everyone's injuries. (including the opponent)

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Yosuke View Post
                              Out of curiosity,is there any system that you know of that actually teaches how to most efficiently overwhelm someone USING superior numbers? (you are the one with the numbers advantage) I think only LEO's,SWAT teams,and Military are taught this,but there has to be a genuine video out there that gets into this.

                              BTW,when I use the word "most efficiently",I'm talking about minimizing the damage for everyone involved(including the dude being ganged up on. after all,sometimes we're just trying to subdue an unruly person,not beat them into hospitalization.)
                              Yeah, law enforcement riot snatch squads (though some beating is often involved). Prison officers removing unruly prisoners from their cells is another. In days past they would charge into the cell using a mattress to pin them to the wall until they could grab a limb each. Training progressed to perspex riot shields and techniques now often included pain compliance holds. In all those cases equipment was involved though. Judging by the police arrest videos online, everyone just kind of piles on...

                              I imagine doormen or bodyguards might receive some many on one style training which doesn't use weapons or equipment.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by PDA View Post
                                Both Wing Chun and Ninjutsu cover this in great detail and success.
                                What the fuck?1 Ninjutsu and Wing Chun SUCK, they don't have spaaring!

                                Comment

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