Originally posted by NeilG
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Five Hard Truths about Martial Arts that you don’t want to believe.
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Functionally Illiterate
- Jun 2005
- 18279 Location: Sinsinnatti Oh Hi Ho
Style: all things in Moderation
Originally posted by NeilG View PostWell in kendo we have plenty of paired drills and they are not considered kata. We also have a formalized set of drills used to teach people various techniques called bokuto ni yoru kendo kihon-waza keiko-ho, and to an outsider it may look like kata but it is not according to our definition. IMO a kata has to contain some portion of a fight and demonstrate some principles beyond the mere execution of technique.
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Originally posted by DCS View PostPlease,, please, please...
The one I'm looking for though shows him actually demonstrating blade work and how "easy" it is to defeat traditional kendo... Just need to find the DVD then rip the DVD then upload clip...
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Originally posted by BackFistMonkey View PostTechniques that can be executed only by your little ole lonesome against air. Kata shows no mastery and no understanding of technique nor application of technique.
I don't train on my own with Kate.
You think you should wait until your or your family's life is in danger to find out if your air punching and compliant training is going to work?
I should hope you see the problems with that train of thought.
Reading and understanding a situation. Knowing when to fight and when not to fight
If it doesn't what were the results on the mean streets?
Death? Maybe severe injury because you fought back when you should have just tossed your wallet or let those guys call you a pussy,
Again reading and understanding a situation. Knowing when to fight and when not to fight
Which is why you should always be competing and testing and pushing yourself. So you not only know your limits but so you can reminded of this concept. No one who trains in a combat sport thinks they are unbeatable. Oh sure some may talk that good shit to stir people up and play the promotional games but real hubris usually comes from the arts which do not spar with heavy contact, compete, and/or train under restrictive and silly rule sets.
Live sparring is an excellent training tool and you should keep pushing and testing yourself at every level.
The art of defence is not just fighting it's also knowing when to throw your wallet and be called a pussy.
Ps. Sorry about the quote box have not yet figured out how to separate the quote and my reply. I'm afraid I am not very good with IT.Last edited by Ridgway; 10/21/2016 3:29am, .
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Originally posted by Ridgway View PostPs. Sorry about the quote box have not yet figured out how to separate the quote and my reply. I'm afraid I am not very good with IT.
Originally posted by Ridgway View PostThe art of defence is not just fighting it's also knowing when to throw your wallet and be called a pussy.
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The Meaning of Kata-seishin shotokan
There are three “k”s in Karate - kihon, kata and kumite, or four if you count the word karate! Kihon means basics, Kata means forms and Kumite means partner work or sparring. This article deals with Kata.
In Shotokan Karate there are 26 official kata - 5 basic kata, 6 intermediate kata and 15 advanced kata. It takes many years to learn all of them let alone to master them all. There is a Japanese saying that goes “Hito kata, san-nen” - “One kata, three years” meaning that mastery of each kata takes three years of practice. This phrase is very difficult for a beginner to understand because most beginners to Karate think they know Heian Shodan (the first kata) after about 3 months of practice, some even sooner. What they mean of course is that they can do the moves in the right order and make it look like they know something. The truth of the matter is that they managed to get through a set sequence or pattern of moves that really has little bearing on their real knowledge of Karate. It probably shows their memory ability and coordination skills more than anything else.
I’m sorry because I don’t want to burst any bubbles or detract from the sense of satisfaction of remembering the first kata because that is truly an achievement, but what I do want to do is to explain what true mastery of a kata really means and that knowing really implies understanding and doing.
To be able to replicate the moves of a kata without mistake is the first step in learning a kata. You start by learning direction, followed by left and right, then technique, then strength, power, speed and focus and finally rhythm and honest self-expression.
If you have got this far in terms of your overall ability to perform a kata competently then you are probably a black belt or close to that rank.
However to attain true kata mastery it is necessary to delve deeper, beyond the aesthetically pleasing moves to the bunkai (application).
The bunkai of kata teaches us the true meaning and relevance of kata as a whole. As stated bunkai means application, more specifically how can I use these moves that I am practicing to devastating effect against an opponent.
When you are able to take the moves of a kata out of the context of the kata in which you learned the moves and apply them to various combat situations effectively then you can begin to claim that you know the kata. This is the real meaning of kata and this is why you should always practice kata diligently.
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QUOTE=ermghoti;2905604]
Pretty much everybody here would agree with this, but you'll get resistance if people think you're arguing a bad fighting technique is a good self-defense technique, or vice versa.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I don't understand. How is judging a situation and knowing when to. Or when not to fight is a bad self-defence technique. If it saves you or your family then surely it's an option.
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Originally posted by Ridgway View PostI'm sorry but I don't understand. How is judging a situation and knowing when to. Or when not to fight is a bad self-defence technique. If it saves you or your family then surely it's an option.
Originally posted by Ridgway View PostThere is a Japanese saying that goes “Hito kata, san-nen” - “One kata, three years” meaning that mastery of each kata takes three years of practice.
Originally posted by goodlunGiven most drilling is dead I will call most "drilling" a "kata" The point of these things is to learn the movements.
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Originally posted by goodlun View PostI think the "Kata" discussion is interesting, because every art including Boxing and BJJ have some form of "kata" I mean we don't call doing line drills, Stability ball work, technique drilling, throwing dummy drilling, CTX drilling, Shadow Boxing "Kata", but that is what those things are, they serve a purpose. I think the key thing here that alive arts know is that you cannot JUST do these things and hope to be any good. You can do the Judo/BJJ warm up every day 8 times a day, followed up by compliant technique drilling for 10 years, and sure you will be a bit better prepared for a fight than the guy that does nothing, but you are going to get your ass handed to you by hell I would say a white belt that has been training properly for 6 months.
The problem with karate kata, for instance, is that a shit ton of the techniques have virtually no direct application to real fighting. Judo kata is different because you're practicing the techniques you're actually expected to fight with. A good portion of the movements in the kata you find in traditional striking arts are completely nonsensical and therefore, a waste of time.
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Originally posted by Ridgway View PostAll this talk of kata. It is there for a reason to show that you have an understanding of the move's and techniques you have been shown. As for fighting. hell, if your art defends you from an attacker on the street. Then it's done it's job and if it doesn't. You need to identify the problem and work on it.
As for those who boast to be unbeatable need to wise up. Because there is always someone out there who will put them on their ars.
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