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Five Hard Truths about Martial Arts that you donít want to believe.

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    Originally posted by Devil View Post
    You're arguing a point that is different than the point I have presented to you. I would never insinuate that physical gifts don't matter. But the other side of that coin is that they also don't mean much without putting in the work. You said success in sports is determined by genetics and luck. I don't believe it's nearly that simple. I think that's one piece of the puzzle. An important piece, to be sure.
    You're right I should have been more specific. Financial success in combat sports ultimately comes down to genetics,hard work and luck.
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 5/27/2016 9:54am, .

    Comment


      Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
      Financial success in combat sports ultimately comes down to genetics,hard work and luck.
      I'm listening. Say more words.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Devil View Post
        I'm listening. Say more words.
        Oh nevermind. You edited that to include hard work. I'm with you.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Devil View Post
          I'm listening. Say more words.
          Most mma top 10 fighters take home around 30-60. There isn't a lot of room to be number 20 in that model. Tim Kennedy said his fighting pay netted him 60 K about five years ago when he first started with the UFC.
          After management and gym fees yada yada yada. He makes what an under paid electrician makes with no job security and a short shelf life.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
            Most mma top 10 fighters take home around 30-60. There isn't a lot of room to be number 20 in that model. Tim Kennedy said his fighting pay netted him 60 K about five years ago when he first started with the UFC.
            After management and gym fees yada yada yada. He makes what an under paid electrician makes with no job security and a short shelf life.
            Oh yeah, I know that. I asked for more information because your post originally said financial success depends on genetics and luck. Then you edited to include hard work.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Devil View Post
              Oh nevermind. You edited that to include hard work. I'm with you.
              Yeah if you remove one of them the whole model falls a part.

              Everyone breaks Bj Penns balls about being lazy. Bj use to train bjj 8+ hours a day for 3 years straight. You can't cheat the mat time.

              Comment


                Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                They only reason there is now Judo juvenile death numbers is the Japanese government in recent years made it illegal for the numbers not to be reported to a collecting agency.
                Right now Jiu-Jitsu injury numbers are neither reported nor regulated.
                Just like for years aggregate concussion data in professional football was not tracked,
                Just like for many years tobacco use was not tracked medically.
                The numbers we do have for Jiu-Jitsu are not being well aggregated, tested, and confirmed.
                We have a couple studies.
                Not enough to draw any conclusions yet.
                We need 20 years of studies with first class data collection to draw conclusions.
                However, we know from other sports that the growth plates in kids under 12, and brain development in males under 14 are prone to serious and permanent injury in contact sports.
                In almost every large BJJ tournament there is a kid who gets injured from submissions.
                The outcome of those injuries (including return to sport) is not currently tracked.
                Injuries happen in all sports.
                The whole reason I started the awareness campaign regarding kids safety in grappling was:
                1) My friend's kid got killed on the football field due to a totally preventable injury.
                2) the MMA community take the argument of no kids get injured and put kids as the talent in MMA events where spectators get charged gate to watch, and
                3) Several of my colleagues from Brazil advertise that injuries only happen to kids in American ran tournaments.
                4) I worked professionally with kids with epilepsy, and many of those kids were healthy kids until they took a head injury.
                5) When I tried to find injury numbers of juvenile US wrestling, Judo, and BJJ, I found the same type of under-reporting bias they had in Japan until their government made the reporting, collection, and review of those numbers for kids a legal imperative with stiff penalties for errors.
                I've done Judo a long time, pretty much exclusively, and been to dozens and dozens of tournaments from local fold out mats on grass to internationals invitationals, adults level to kids who were way way to young to be competing in adult rules level Judo (still common and normal in the USA, BTW).

                I've seen a LOT of concussions (and had several myself, two that totally knocked me out, one to the state of puking, one that blinded me in one eye for a week). I've seen concussions from TRAINING (one of mine in which I got put out was training), let alone competition. Most of the ones I remember were kids, not adults. I think part of that was skill level based, the other physiological (kids have less muscle to support their heads).

                In fact, at Canadian nationals, I watched a finals match between two young women (u18 division, although one of them was a u16 competitor, -70 kg). One went for an O Goshi, (this was an opposing stance situation), got the throw for ippon, but they somehow banged heads in the process. The u16 woman had to get stitches. Neither went out, but I bet they were concussed...

                A very promising young man in Canadian judo suffered a bad concussion recently... He was extremely talented...I hear he may be totally done with Judo now.

                All anecdotal, of course. The primary issue, based on my experience, is a heavy emphasis on teaching adult level and style Judo to kids, and having them compete under adult rules with adult intensity before they are sufficiently prepared technically, physiologically, and emotionally.

                Looking at an advertised large shiai coming up in the US has kids as young as born in 2008 competing in full on adult rules (minus submissions) matches, 3 minutes. There are also novice divisions.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Devil View Post
                  Combat sports don't promote socialization, working together, strategy, teamwork, conditioning and coordination? These kids don't train by themselves in a vacuum. They don't train without coaches. They don't get away with being dickheads.
                  Oh, I agree, however, there is a definite difference in training versus competition, right ? Of course, there is socialization in training combat sports, you can't train by yourself and be any good.

                  It's not an either/or sort of thing. Both are beneficial.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Devil View Post
                    A lot if it is, in fact your opinion.

                    People who find a sport early that they love and continue to love throughout their lives are already going to be the exception to the rule. That doesn't mean there's no benefit to finding that sport early. We're already talking about outliers because people who are the cream of the crop in their sport are outliers.

                    Again, I am fully supportive of cross training. But I also see advantages to early exposure. If they get burned out and quit, then they do. But the kids that don't have an advantage, especially in a skill sport.

                    For example, I see some kids at jiu jitsu competitions who are so good. Kids who will easily be creeping up on black belt skill level by their 18th birthday (I know the rank requirements. I'm talking about comparative skill).

                    Let's assume those kids continue training with enthusiasm and don't quit. If someone thinks they're going to start jiu jitsu at 18 and just catch up with these people who are as accustomed to jiu jitsu as they are to breathing, I think that is overly optimistic to say the least. I think they've got a long motherfucking row to hoe.

                    As much as martial artists love to talk about more mat time being the key to success, I think it's silly as hell to pretend a ten year head start doesn't matter.

                    No, not at all.
                    I haven't added any opinion.
                    Those points are all easily verifiable facts.
                    If you cannot get over your dissonance that's on you.
                    I never said 18, and you're ignoring the FACTS of the training history of MOST of the world BJJ BB gold medal champions.

                    Jesus...

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by BKR View Post
                      Oh, I agree, however, there is a definite difference in training versus competition, right ? Of course, there is socialization in training combat sports, you can't train by yourself and be any good.

                      It's not an either/or sort of thing. Both are beneficial.
                      I agree that both are beneficial. But I do think you presented those factors as something unique to team sports. Even in competition, they go as a team if it's local and cheer each other on and celebrate their team points.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
                        No, not at all.
                        I haven't added any opinion.
                        Those points are all easily verifiable facts.
                        If you cannot get over your dissonance that's on you.
                        I never said 18, and you're ignoring the FACTS of the training history of MOST of the world BJJ BB gold medal champions.

                        Jesus...
                        If you can't find any opinions in your post that I was referring to, then you're a half wit.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
                          No, not at all.
                          I haven't added any opinion.
                          Those points are all easily verifiable facts.
                          If you cannot get over your dissonance that's on you.
                          I never said 18, and you're ignoring the FACTS of the training history of MOST of the world BJJ BB gold medal champions.

                          Jesus...
                          Which are facts?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by BKR View Post
                            A very promising young man in Canadian judo suffered a bad concussion recently... He was extremely talented...I hear he may be totally done with Judo now.
                            I'm sure that happens lots. Did you know Andrew Yuen from Regina? He's done, that's been a couple years now.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Devil View Post
                              I was in the same boat. Except I was years away from ever hearing the term BJJ. I was fascinated with martial arts from a young age. But I didn't know one from the other, really. My parents weren't all that supportive either and I didn't have a lot of opportunity to train at all until I was about 17. I most definitely would've wrestled but my school didn't have a wrestling program. Opportunities were just limited for me at a young age. But I was extremely fascinated with martial arts and one-on-one combat sports and fighting arts.

                              Come on, man. Success in sports is not just genetics and luck. That is a factor for sure but it's about training and hard work too. I was just reading a FB post by Rhadi Ferguson where he was irritated because someone saw his kid playing soccer and called him a natural. And he knew he wasn't a natural at all. That he sucked and struggled and trained his ass off with his Dad's guidance to improve.
                              The whole natural thing...people who do not train (seriously) in sport, or have any coach/training education, are pretty much clueless. People comment about my kids, in fact, were doing so at a Lacrosse game last night being "natural athletes", "gifted athletes", etc. I suppose that's versus their own kids or other kids performance. But like Rhadi's son, they don't see all the nurturing and background that went into their ability to perform. One of the Mom's was saying how my 6th grade son is the envy of all the 8th graders because he does so much better than them in advanced PE class, soccer, and Lacrosse. And her son is a darned good athlete himself at Lacrosse and Soccer, despite being a bit on the pudgy side. Funny thing is, all three kids (my two sons and hers) all play together quite a bit, and all practice Lacrosse together at home (and soccer). And all three are outstanding academically as well...none of them is genetically anywhere near the type that Rhadi's son is, either.

                              Anyway, as I've outlined already in other posts, what the lay-people don't see is the background that those three and Rhadi's son went through in terms of how they were raised and the level of physical activity they engaged in from toddler age on up. What happens is that once the kids start getting some physical maturity going on, they pretty much seem to explode or come out of nowhere.

                              So being human, lay people have to have an explanation, and it's "oh, he's a natural". And of course, there ARE some naturals out there, the genetically gifted outliers who are perfect for a given sport, or multiple sports.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Devil View Post
                                I agree that both are beneficial. But I do think you presented those factors as something unique to team sports. Even in competition, they go as a team if it's local and cheer each other on and celebrate their team points.
                                I tried to clarify in a reply. Yes, they go as a team, but the competition is individual, even in a team event. It's one on one on the tatami. You can't get there without a team, without support, for sure. But in the end, it's on the guy on the tatami to make it happen. As much as some coaches like to say they "produce" athletes...

                                So, the working as a team in competition is what is different. Judo match versus Lacrosse game....there is individual performance on the field, in the context of a team effort and interaction on the field.

                                Comment

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