Five Hard Truths about Martial Arts that you don’t want to believe.

[submessenger]

Yes. I guess what gives me pause is that it seems like the implication is that a kid needs to play a ball sport or something. I'm not sure that makes sense to me. If the goal is to be good at jiu jitsu, for instance, I'm not sure there's any reason in the world why baseball would be inherently better to cross train in than wrestling or Judo, for instance.

Maybe that's the "art" part of martial arts? I would say my BJJ game is informed by other activities in my current and past life, because those activities have helped me learn about my body - what I can do, what hurts "enough," etc. Thus, I definitely think there's a value proposition in engaging in physical activity different from one's elected primary martial art.

[BKR]

Yes. I guess what gives me pause is that it seems like the implication is that a kid needs to play a ball sport or something. I'm not sure that makes sense to me. If the goal is to be good at jiu jitsu, for instance, I'm not sure there's any reason in the world why baseball would be inherently better to cross train in than wrestling or Judo, for instance.

I don't think all ball sports are created equally. Personally, I'd put baseball near the bottom of the list, other than some hand eye coordination and hitting stuff with a stick skills.

Soccer, on the other hand, or Lacrosse or football, better, with football at the bottom, although it's not harmful IME. I will say I did not want my kids to play football because of the chance of knee injuries. But they do Judo, so go figure, LOL!

[submessenger]

I will also say that I find it disturbing that a large percentage of BJJ players are also surfers, something I'm miserable at.

[Raycetpfl]

I don't think all ball sports are created equally. Personally, I'd put baseball near the bottom of the list, other than some hand eye coordination and hitting stuff with a stick skills.

Soccer, on the other hand, or Lacrosse or football, better, with football at the bottom, although it's not harmful IME. I will say I did not want my kids to play football because of the chance of knee injuries. But they do Judo, so go figure, LOL!

Basketball destroys legs. The greatest players in the NBA are probably not the greatest players to ever play the game. They are the greatest players whose legs held together long enough for them to have a career.

[BKR]

I've seen the asshole parents too, coaching their kids from the sidelines like they're competing for a world title. I get where you're coming from. But I've also seen a ton of learning occurring with kids. I've seen some kids who are really good. And I'll admit I don't have an X-Ray machine built into my forehead and I don't have the luxury of going around examining the much talked about growth plates. But in four years of watching kids classes I have seen zero injuries from hyperextension. And I've seen more injuries by far in Judo tournaments than in BJJ tournaments and I've been to many more jiu jitsu tournaments. Just my observations.

Those are good points. I look at subs for kids this way.

1.) Maturity issues. You are teaching kids how to seriously injure another kid, deliberately and purposely. Of course, they are admonished not too do so. Submissions are a specialization of grappling. Getting into position and controlling are per-requisites. If you look at BJJ as part of a long-term development program, you won't be spending a lot of time on how to armbar anyway. That will vary with age/stage, of course. To me, get the position, hold it, other kid can tap, and then move on. I believe you about the lack of injuries, and I would think it's because the kids are being taught not to crank on each others arms/necks.

The same problem happens in Judo, BTW. Teaching 7 year olds how to slam another kid into the ground as an emphasis in training isn't really a good idea. There are issues with balance, control, possibly understanding consequences. That is where the LTAD model comes into play. The focus is not on achieving excellence in the given sport (Judo, for example), but using Judo as a vehicle for appropriate athletic development.

2.) Injuries in judo tournaments: Yep, that shit happens. Kids get thrown into competition at an early age, get taught essentially adult Judo with kids bodies and minds, and away we goooooo... I'd say it's amazing there are not MORE injuries, but kids bodies are a lot softer than adults. So how to address ? No competition for kids under a certain age and rank, and then a different ruleset for kids a bit older, until you get to normal rule set competitions at a certain age/rank.

I sort of got into a conversation with a guy on Facebook regarding a promotional video he posted. He runs a club in Florida with apparently a huge emphasis on competition. For kids...in Judo, jiu jitsu. He posted here quite a while back and we basically reamed him for pimping out his kids to advertise. He asked for feedback, so I gave him some.

Anyway, time will tell whether or not he is successful.

[BKR]

Yea, the numbers say it's the throws that are the more dangerous part of the equation. The numbers are out there. Everyone here has seen them at this point.

See my reply to Devil...it's not so much the "what" it's the "how" and "when".

[Devil]

Because physical education has it's own merits above and beyond physical prowess.
I'm sure you're incorporating that but gross motor skills, body awareness, teamwork, coachability, and so on can get lost in "getting better at xyz".
You don't want to develop a good or even great child athlete, you want to develop a good adult human being.
If they decide to pursue being a great athlete you've given them all the attributes they need by then anyhow, without the baggage.
The variety is what develops a more complete, healthy, self motivated athlete.
Starting over in new stuff all the time is great at a young age.

I think what you present is one way. Not the way. Essentially, I think you're a little too sure of your answer.

We could both sit here all day long and make lists of world class athletes who specialized early and world class athletes who didn't. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[BKR]

Basketball destroys legs. The greatest players in the NBA are probably not the greatest players to ever play the game. They are the greatest players whose legs held together long enough for them to have a career.

Recreational basketball probably isn't so bad, but decades of pounding on a hard floor...ugh...

[Devil]

I never cared for ball sports. I played a little roller hockey and I was skater, blades and board. I was very active though. I think that's the important thing. It's not what they do. Just that they do some things without it becoming a chore.

Yes. That's my feeling as well.

[Devil]

I don't think all ball sports are created equally. Personally, I'd put baseball near the bottom of the list, other than some hand eye coordination and hitting stuff with a stick skills.

Soccer, on the other hand, or Lacrosse or football, better, with football at the bottom, although it's not harmful IME. I will say I did not want my kids to play football because of the chance of knee injuries. But they do Judo, so go figure, LOL!

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better overall physical activity than wrestling. Especially since wrestling teams usually incorporate resistance training and cardio at age appropriate levels. I'd put gymnastics high on the list too. Fuck chasing a ball. What am I? A Labrador Retriever?

[Raycetpfl]

I will also say that I find it disturbing that a large percentage of BJJ players are also surfers, something I'm miserable at.

I think the fringe people enjoy martial arts . Surfers,skaters, bmx, etc. Definitely are fringe people as well.

[Raycetpfl]

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better overall physical activity than wrestling. Especially since wrestling teams usually incorporate resistance training and cardio at age appropriate levels. I'd put gymnastics high on the list too. Fuck chasing a ball. What am I? A Labrador Retriever?

Wrestling is a bit of a meat grinder. Carefully choose your coaches.

[BKR]

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better overall physical activity than wrestling. Especially since wrestling teams usually incorporate resistance training and cardio at age appropriate levels. I'd put gymnastics high on the list too. Fuck chasing a ball. What am I? A Labrador Retriever?

Wrestling would be fine. I encouraged my boys to try it out (there is a very good program in our town), but neither of them wanted to do that. Right, appropriate age levels, that's the key.

I keep trying to get a gymnastics coach to come to our dojo and teach, no luck yet.

The thing with ball sports (soccer, Lacrosse) is that they are team sports, which promotes socialization, working together, strategy, teamwork (when properly instructed...), as well as conditioning and coordination. Lacrosse rocks, wear pads, contact, and sticks and ball, lots of running (unless you are goalie), dodging, etc.

[BKR]

Wrestling is a bit of a meat grinder. Carefully choose your coaches.

Yes, talk about focused on competition...whoever heard of a recreational wrestler ?

[BKR]

So I looked at the data some more.
Top 100 IJF rankings, by country.
Country Number in Top 100 Percentage
RUS 50 47.62%
JPN 43 40.95%
FRA 30 28.57%
GEO 23 21.90%
KAZ 23 21.90%
MGL 23 21.90%
BRA 20 19.05%
AZE 18 17.14%
KOR 18 17.14%
UKR 18 17.14%
GER 17 16.19%
UZB 17 16.19%
GBR 16 15.24%
ITA 16 15.24%
USA 13 12.38%
ESP 12 11.43%
ALG 11 10.48%
CAN 11 10.48%
HUN 11 10.48%
ISR 11 10.48%
NED 11 10.48%
POL 11 10.48%
POR 11 10.48%
AUS 10 9.52%
EGY 10 9.52%
CHN 9 8.57%
CUB 9 8.57%
BEL 8 7.62%
BLR 8 7.62%
MAR 8 7.62%
MEX 8 7.62%
SLO 8 7.62%
SRB 8 7.62%
TUN 8 7.62%
CZE 7 6.67%
NZL 7 6.67%
TUR 7 6.67%
ARG 6 5.71%
KGZ 6 5.71%
TJK 6 5.71%
LAT 5 4.76%
SUI 5 4.76%
SWE 5 4.76%
UAE 5 4.76%
ARM 4 3.81%
AUT 4 3.81%
GRE 4 3.81%
PER 4 3.81%
ROU 4 3.81%
VEN 4 3.81%
CMR 3 2.86%
ECU 3 2.86%
EST 3 2.86%
FIN 3 2.86%
LIB 3 2.86%
LTU 3 2.86%
RSA 3 2.86%
TPE 3 2.86%
BUL 2 1.90%
CHI 2 1.90%
DOM 2 1.90%
GAB 2 1.90%
IRQ 2 1.90%
KSA 2 1.90%
LBA 2 1.90%
MNE 2 1.90%
MON 2 1.90%
PRK 2 1.90%
PUR 2 1.90%
SEN 2 1.90%
SVK 2 1.90%
TKM 2 1.90%
URU 2 1.90%
ANG 1 0.95%
BEN 1 0.95%
BUR 1 0.95%
CIV 1 0.95%
COL 1 0.95%
CRO 1 0.95%
DEN 1 0.95%
ESA 1 0.95%
GAM 1 0.95%
GHA 1 0.95%
GUA 1 0.95%
HKG 1 0.95%
HON 1 0.95%
IND 1 0.95%
IRI 1 0.95%
ISL 1 0.95%
JOR 1 0.95%
KOS 1 0.95%
KUW 1 0.95%
MDA 1 0.95%
MOZ 1 0.95%
NCL 1 0.95%
NOR 1 0.95%
NRU 1 0.95%
PAK 1 0.95%
PYF 1 0.95%
QAT 1 0.95%
SAM 1 0.95%
THA 1 0.95%
TTO 1 0.95%
YEM 1 0.95%
ZAM 1 0.95%

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