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Fake BJJ black belts and "technical blue belts"

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  • The Villain
    replied
    Red is for instructor.

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  • searcher66071
    replied
    Yes, that is exactly how our belts are set up. Our ranks are on both sides, not like how BJJ has is on one side. Of course, my BJJ belt(not black, just a 4 stripe blue), has a bar on one side ad it is plain old black.

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  • Raycetpfl
    replied
    Originally posted by searcher66071 View Post
    Not to go off of the reservation here, but American Kenpo has used the "rank bar" for years to denote 5 degrees of black belt. We just don't put tape on the bars as that is the rank. For every 5 it becomes a bar, in place of stripes.

    As far as Elvis goes, he did legitimately ear black belts from Ed Parker and Hank Slomanski.


    Now, on subject, this guy is a turd who got caught. Yes, it was going to happen. Which is unfortunate. I have trained with several guys that have training centers(they come to our seminars). They are nice people, but have no clue how bad they are representing GJJ/BJJ. They don't roll. Their technique is lacking. They don't compete. And they have drank the kool-aid, by the gallon.
    On both sides like this correct? Is it ever just on one side like bjj ?

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  • Ming Loyalist
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Correct a chevron is a special kind of (V-shaped) stripe. They're used the same way though.

    For most enlisted services, chevrons are used, for officers, straight bars/stripes.

    Most martial arts that I've seen utilizing stripes don't use chevron-shaped stripes, but some do.

    here's one, note the shift from chevron to straight bar indicates "instructor".

    they might have changed it, but in my day sam cup (second belt from the bottom) was enough to be an instructor (i never tested past that, as everything afterwards was weapon based and i was focused 100% on hand to hand.) of course i have to point out that this system was only brought into place in the late 80s and prior to that the only distinction was if your sifu had authorized you to teach.

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  • searcher66071
    replied
    Not to go off of the reservation here, but American Kenpo has used the "rank bar" for years to denote 5 degrees of black belt. We just don't put tape on the bars as that is the rank. For every 5 it becomes a bar, in place of stripes.

    As far as Elvis goes, he did legitimately ear black belts from Ed Parker and Hank Slomanski.


    Now, on subject, this guy is a turd who got caught. Yes, it was going to happen. Which is unfortunate. I have trained with several guys that have training centers(they come to our seminars). They are nice people, but have no clue how bad they are representing GJJ/BJJ. They don't roll. Their technique is lacking. They don't compete. And they have drank the kool-aid, by the gallon.

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    A chevron isn't the same thing as a stripe.
    Correct a chevron is a special kind of (V-shaped) stripe. They're used the same way though.

    For most enlisted services, chevrons are used, for officers, straight bars/stripes.

    Most martial arts that I've seen utilizing stripes don't use chevron-shaped stripes, but some do.

    here's one, note the shift from chevron to straight bar indicates "instructor".

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  • Permalost
    replied
    A chevron isn't the same thing as a stripe.

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  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Bjj belts look like bjj belts. Ours have a particular look.
    BJJ belt "rank bars" look like service stripes (chevrons), which are actually way older than colored belts as a form of martial "heraldry" and rank recognition. Quite a few "legit" styles over the centuries have used them. Some military systems (e.g MCMAP) also use stripe(s) for that reason.

    I personally feel chevrons/stripes are a lot more useful than a simple color, based on the visual data, so I agree BJJ made the right choice of heraldry (color signifies major rank, stripes signify time in rank, special stripes (e.g. red) indicate instructor, etc.). In doing so BJJ has avoided the confusion of Judo belts (where every association seems to have their own favorite color scheme that isn't even consistent across their schools).

    Colors are subjective and can mean anything (see Omega's thread), but a number of chevrons/stripes represents length of time/service. Combined, they give a lot of information about what the wearer claims to be their rank and time devoted..

    Of course like any heraldry it can be exaggerated (see the other recent thread about the 30 year old red belt and you'll see a belt with more than 10 stripes..), if not outright FAKE!
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/09/2015 2:11pm, .

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  • The Villain
    replied
    If it were for all Bjj black belts it wouldn't be taped on. Anyways, I'm not really making an argument, as I've no interest in this particular person. I'm just clarifying some of the facts and making sure that the process is correct. Without proper procedure it's easy to rush to judgement and there are plenty that would take advantage of ignorant, gullible zealots to take out business rivals and such.

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  • cualltaigh
    replied
    Originally posted by The Villain View Post
    or fighter or head instructor, depending on school.
    I've read this quoted often (as well as signifying owning their own academy amongst others) but I've never seen someone actually being able to verify it.

    The white bars at either end are definitely for all IBJJF black belts up to 6th degree (section 1.3.3 of the IBJJF Graduation System). As to non-IBJJF black belts then yeah, for sure depending on school.

    However, getting back to the belt in question, it is not just a red ranking bar on a black belt, it is a red ranking bar delineated with a white stripe at each end with a further white stripe on the ranking bar. I can't think of (or google-fu) another martial art that uses that specific type of black belt ranking on their belts.
    Last edited by cualltaigh; 10/08/2015 11:49pm, .

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  • The Villain
    replied
    Originally posted by cualltaigh View Post
    You need to be more specific to satisfy the pedants here. As Villain already pointed out though, it is for good reason.


    The closest I've seen to a BJJ black belt is a Kempo karate 5th dan.



    To a lay person the 5th Dan Kempo black belt, which has the solid red bar on a black belt, could be confused with a BJJ black belt. However, the BJJ black belt distinguishes itself with the use of the white stripes at each end of the rank bar. The use of the white stripe denoting a further degree (in this case the first degree) further distinguishes the belt in question as a BJJ belt.
    Incorrect. The white stripes indicate either IBJJF or fighter or head instructor, depending on school. They're not guaranteed for a BJJ black belt.

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  • cualltaigh
    replied
    It should also be noted that the only martial arts currently being offered at the HighKix school in question is Tang Soo Do and Kummooyeh (Kumdo - Korean sword).

    As far as I'm aware neither of these arts utilise a red rank bar. This is supported by the images on the site, which include a 2nd, 3rd and 5th degree black belts (denoted by white or gold stripes directly onto a black belt) none of whom wear a red rank bar.

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  • Raycetpfl
    replied
    Originally posted by cualltaigh View Post
    You need to be more specific to satisfy the pedants here. As Villain already pointed out though, it is for good reason.


    The closest I've seen to a BJJ black belt is a Kempo karate 5th dan.



    To a lay person the 5th Dan Kempo black belt, which has the solid red bar on a black belt, could be confused with a BJJ black belt. However, the BJJ black belt distinguishes itself with the use of the white stripes at each end of the rank bar. The use of the white stripe denoting a further degree (in this case the first degree) further distinguishes the belt in question as a BJJ belt.
    Also theirs seem to be embroidery which leaves the sides black from what I have noticed.
    Bjj rank bar wraps completely around the belt.

    Leave a comment:


  • cualltaigh
    replied
    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Bjj belts look like bjj belts. Ours have a particular look.
    You need to be more specific to satisfy the pedants here. As Villain already pointed out though, it is for good reason.


    The closest I've seen to a BJJ black belt is a Kempo karate 5th dan.



    To a lay person the 5th Dan Kempo black belt, which has the solid red bar on a black belt, could be confused with a BJJ black belt. However, the BJJ black belt distinguishes itself with the use of the white stripes at each end of the rank bar. The use of the white stripe denoting a further degree (in this case the first degree) further distinguishes the belt in question as a BJJ belt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raycetpfl
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    That's not true.
    Bjj belts look like bjj belts. Ours have a particular look.

    Leave a comment:

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