Why do TMAers hate on MMA? (stereotypes you've heard about combat sports)

[Holy Moment]

Grappling doesn't Street in a work fight.

[goodlun]

It's probably a new thread and I definitely am interested in your reasoning. I would guess that an effective complete style would need to be very organized and systematic about developing skills, for instance sparring sessions without kicks, pure grappling days etc.

As with most things your training needs to reflect what you are trying to accomplish.
If you want to compete in a certain rule set that rule set is going to define your training heavily.
If you want to compete in multiple rules sets the common ground is going to define the lions share.
If "self defense" is your goal your going to have to train in a manner that reflects what ever your specific self defense goals are.

[mike321]

I disagree. Now is that a discussion for this thread or a new one?

It's probably a new thread and I definitely am interested in your reasoning. I would guess that an effective complete style would need to be very organized and systematic about developing skills, for instance sparring sessions without kicks, pure grappling days etc.

[goodlun]

Styles absolutely need to exclude stuff and avoid being complete. I cant imagine learning takedowns in a setting where jabs can be done. Boxing has developed amazing hand work and footwork by focusing on using hands to hit people.

The funny thing is in the early days of "boxing" throws and even kicks where permitted.
Broughton's rules
London Prize Ring Rules

[Omega Supreme]

Styles absolutely need to exclude stuff and avoid being complete. I cant imagine learning takedowns in a setting where jabs can be done. Boxing has developed amazing hand work and footwork by focusing on using hands to hit people.

I disagree. Now is that a discussion for this thread or a new one?

[NeilG]

Taken to extremes a style would then be more accurately described not just by what they do but also by what they do NOT do? By both their ranges of exclusion and inclusion? Like in the Neal Adams quote: "Style is what you do wrong"?

What you do, what you don't do, and how you do what you do.

[mike321]

Taken to extremes a style would then be more accurately described not just by what they do but also by what they do NOT do? By both their ranges of exclusion and inclusion? Like in the Neal Adams quote: "Style is what you do wrong"?

Styles absolutely need to exclude stuff and avoid being complete. I cant imagine learning takedowns in a setting where jabs can be done. Boxing has developed amazing hand work and footwork by focusing on using hands to hit people.

[ksennin]

Fair enough, there are a lot more politics in Shotokan or any other popular Japanese or Okinawan style than in koryu. Part of the reason guys like Nishikawa split off is that they had strong ideas about what Shotokan should be that differed from the others. But if you got the heads of the various federations together I bet they could agree pretty broadly on many points and also about what it is not. After all, what is the point of practicing a particular ryu if you are going to be open to every technique and training method out there?

Taken to extremes a style would then be more accurately described not just by what they do but also by what they do NOT do? By both their ranges of exclusion and inclusion? Like in the Neal Adams quote: "Style is what you do wrong"?

[NeilG]

Why do TMAers hate on MMA? (stereotypes you've heard about combat sports)

Shotokan Ryu is a completely different animal; there is no "main line" or any sort of designated authority on what true Shotokan is, so it's comparably very difficult to imagine a conflict with tradition there.

Fair enough, there are a lot more politics in Shotokan or any other popular Japanese or Okinawan style than in koryu. Part of the reason guys like Nishikawa split off is that they had strong ideas about what Shotokan should be that differed from the others. But if you got the heads of the various federations together I bet they could agree pretty broadly on many points and also about what it is not. After all, what is the point of practicing a particular ryu if you are going to be open to every technique and training method out there?

[BackFistMonkey]

I got that hardcore Street Elbows Yo.

[DARPAChief]

The thing is, if you are truly in a martial tradition the key word is tradition. The whole point is to train the way they used to. The guys doing Katori Shinto Ryu aren't about to drop their swords in favour of automatic rifles. Nor should the Shotokan guys start training kick-boxing style. So long as they don't misrepresent themselves I don't have a problem. There seems to be a large number of people that are completely baffled at the thought of practicing martial arts with a different set of goals than their own.

The motives behind the Shotokan and Shinto Ryu's training policies might appear to have things in common, but fundamentally they're coming from very different places. Shinto Ryu trains "like they used to" because it is deemed essential by the living vessels of the tradition, who arbitrate decisions based on their understanding of the core tenants of the ryu. There were and are plenty of classical JMA which have no problem with ditching training methods if it benefits the ryu, and there are other legitimate branches of Shinto Ryu that do things differently. Shotokan Ryu is a completely different animal; there is no "main line" or any sort of designated authority on what true Shotokan is, so it's comparably very difficult to imagine a conflict with tradition there.

[Holy Moment]

Just Streeting a little bit in my room. Nothing unusual here.

[Raycetpfl]

His "tiger claw" can empty your face of tissue before (or after) your jab cross hook combination does shit.

If he's feeling MERCIFUL, he'll just use jiujitsu.

That's about that.

It's well known amongst real martial artists such as those from the Cobra Kai....that mercy is for the weak.

[big maclol]

I got to agree with the "good training VS bad training" idea.

I know some pretty bad ass TMA and MMA guys. I also know the wannabe MMA fighters with the MMA shirts and the TMA jerk as well.

It just so happens that a majority of TMAers who dislike MMA are Asiaphiles who don't really train like real martial artists. The first few posts on this thread nail it pretty well!

[big maclol]

Because TMA is badass and MMA is for pussies.

You just watched Harold Howard defeat a Muay Thai fighter/wrestler with point karate and bouncing experience. That's like the time I took out the helicopter in GTA: San Andreas with my bare hands.

This reminds me so much of Dead Or Alive

Maybe a bit of Tekken. Definitely a bloodsport vibe to it