Why do TMAers hate on MMA? (stereotypes you've heard about combat sports)

[BKR]

Until they were substituted as primary battlefield weapons by firearms around mid 16th century.

And firearms still require training, to handle the weapon correctly and well, and work as a group in formation, up to and including modern small unit tactics. And so we also now have target shooting, and various types of "shooting games" (Cowboy Action Shooting comes to mind first, practical pistol shooting, three gun shooting, etc., to paintball games).

So the rough analogy would be bujutsu to budo to modern combat sports, but with firearms. And of course in the common ones I listed, there is no physical contact between competitors.

[ermghoti]

The MMA vs.TMA debate, as far as America goes, probably has its roots in the kickboxing craze of the 70's and 80's. A lot of pussy TMA guys were reluctant to accept "professional karate."

I haven't had time to get to a real computer recently, so my comment is a little late. The contempt is not confined to, and didn't start with, sport fighting. The same blather about unskilled brutes absorbing and dishing out punishment via crude, animalistic movements being susceptible to the subtle and nuanced techniques of a TMA has been applied to criminal attackers and brawlers for, well, I don't know, but at least decades. That position is just as untenable as the sport/TMA claim. I think we can figure out how a real world conflict between a flappy limbed, unconditioned artist trained in cooperative, no-contact drills and point matches would tend to fare against a battle hardened brawler that learned to fight by fighting everybody that looked at him crooked for the last ten or twenty years.

[DCS]

So the rough analogy would be bujutsu to budo to modern combat sports

I find your analogy too whiggish for my taste.

BTW, you may find this paper interesting:
Displaying authority: guns, political legitimacy, and martial pageantry in Tokugawa Japan, 1600-1868.

[Mr. Machette]

Fightng isn't a "sport". You think it's a game out there on the street? It's ugly, son.
You go to ground and the droogs will gang up and "steal your honor"!
Even when the odds are in your favor you never know what could happen. One Halloween we had this scruby freshman out numbered four to one and out of nowhere we got beat to hell by a semi retired car collector.
TMA counters these innate natural dangers with a lot of passive agressive philosophical masturbation, dramatic posing routines and strict no touching rules.
Osu.

[BKR]

I find your analogy too whiggish for my taste.

BTW, you may find this paper interesting:
Displaying authority: guns, political legitimacy, and martial pageantry in Tokugawa Japan, 1600-1868.

I don't tend to the polished, eloquent analysis for which you are so well known.

Being a trained and having worked as a professional geologist, I may tend towards uniformitarian habits of thought.

Thanks for the reference, I'll check it out.

[JohnnyCache]

you know, I had a showerthought about this

There isn't really a legit case to be made that arts START combative and "devolve" into sports.

In reality, every society since ever has had fighting/wrestling sports AND armies. So the fact is, there's always been "lifers" who have been doing the shit a long time showing the 20 year olds "just enough"

And there has probably also been a seperate, but demographically overlapping, culture of physical demonstrations of strength and fitness, of which wrestling at the very least would have almost always been a touchstone.

So the idea that military arts "become" sport or civilian arts as they "trickle down" is probably false, save as branding/cachet.

[BKR]

you know, I had a showerthought about this

There isn't really a legit case to be made that arts START combative and "devolve" into sports.

In reality, every society since ever has had fighting/wrestling sports AND armies. So the fact is, there's always been "lifers" who have been doing the shit a long time showing the 20 year olds "just enough"

And there has probably also been a seperate, but demographically overlapping, culture of physical demonstrations of strength and fitness, of which wrestling at the very least would have almost always been a touchstone.

So the idea that military arts "become" sport or civilian arts as they "trickle down" is probably false, save as branding/cachet.

I have not stated that military---civilian----sports is the only path, it's one possible path, but I do think it's well demonstrated to have happened.

[Holy Moment]

I haven't had time to get to a real computer recently, so my comment is a little late. The contempt is not confined to, and didn't start with, sport fighting. The same blather about unskilled brutes absorbing and dishing out punishment via crude, animalistic movements being susceptible to the subtle and nuanced techniques of a TMA has been applied to criminal attackers and brawlers for, well, I don't know, but at least decades. That position is just as untenable as the sport/TMA claim. I think we can figure out how a real world conflict between a flappy limbed, unconditioned artist trained in cooperative, no-contact drills and point matches would tend to fare against a battle hardened brawler that learned to fight by fighting everybody that looked at him crooked for the last ten or twenty years.

https://books.google.com/books?id=YN...20belt&f=false

[DCS]

you know, I had a showerthought about this

There isn't really a legit case to be made that arts START combative and "devolve" into sports.

What about Modern Pentathlon or Parkour?

[NeilG]

I have not stated that military---civilian----sports is the only path, it's one possible path, but I do think it's well demonstrated to have happened.

I think in the case of weapons arts, it's the common way.

[Mon Mon]

I find training in Brazilian Jujitsu helps my other martial arts my coach today was talking about pressure testing i know in the gym i work on BJJ my partner is trying to choke me out but will not kill me it is helping me be calm and develop that warriors mindset and keep fighting and it helps me face my own Weakness deciding to do BJJ is turning out to be one of the best decisions i have ever made.

[BKR]

I think in the case of weapons arts, it's the common way.

One would think, but, those shower moments can be enlightening.

[Kovacs]

I've never understood the TMA hatred of 'athletes'. Athletes are good at physical things and fighting is very physical. Being athletic is a good thing.

[Omega Supreme]

I've never understood the TMA hatred of 'athletes'. Athletes are good at physical things and fighting is very physical. Being athletic is a good thing.

Tell that to my eye.

[Raycetpfl]

What's wrong with your eye?