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Why do TMAers hate on MMA? (stereotypes you've heard about combat sports)

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  • Holy Moment
    replied
    Originally posted by ksennin View Post
    Worked for Musashi, supposedly.
    A typical BJJ roll for me in a nutshell:

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  • The Cap
    replied
    Originally posted by ksennin View Post
    Oh, it was great to post this information as rebuttal to those postings. Thanks!
    I'm glad you shared it with them. I hope it hurts knowing that the target of their derision is better educated, better employed and more politically active than the vast majority of your TMA tools.

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  • judoka01
    replied
    Originally posted by Devil View Post
    Lately I've been chewing on the idea that we'd be much better off if we did away with the term "TMA". It allows shitty martial artists to hide behind weak training as if it's a point of honor. "Well, fuck you MMA meatheads. I'm an honorable traditional martial artist so your argument is invalid." We should acknowledge only two categories of martial arts training. Good training and shit training.
    No. There is training that is accurate to tradition and therefore 'good training'. Whether they are learning self defense is another matter entirely.

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  • ksennin
    replied
    Originally posted by The Cap View Post
    I love how that is a picture of Jeff Monson, with the caption "has no philosophy" and "no control of his mind, body or spirit". Jeff Monson has a master's degree in psychology and was infamous for using his fighting victories as podiums to publicly expound on his political philosophies, which were heavily influenced by his readings of Tolstoy and other leftist thinkers. That picture shows that whoever's sharing it is ignorant and arrogant, and assumes a lot about people based on their appearances.
    Oh, it was great to post this information as rebuttal to those postings. Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Permalost View Post
    To me, complaining that some pro fighters act like thugs is like complaining about how heels in pro wrestling are jerks, because they rip kids' autograph books in half, push over suspiciously muscular old ladies, and call the local audience a bunch of hicks.
    Well look at how many pro anything act like jerks, football, baseball, soccer, they are legion. And Heels are pretending to be jerks but in real life are usually the extreme opposite. People eat it up.

    So...I'll take it broader and say that PROS are not really the main problem. Among pros you'll find both ends of the spectrum, the extreme sportsman, and the extreme asshole and both will have amazing skill. Some people will prefer the sportsman type, others will flock to ride the nuts of the "thugs". Goes well beyond MA.

    The main problem has always been members of the peanut gallery assuming the mantle of "hype man", in lieue of having any sort of skill, training, or exposure themselves. Like I said, you don't have to actually train, spend effort, or be any good at MMA to SWEAR TO ALL MANKIND IT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE THING CREATED SINCE THE ATOM BOMB.

    These are the real offender. Some will be actual thugs with at least marginal fighting skills, but most will be poseurs who just talk about fighting as if THEY are a pro, and have that level of insight. They believe they are Silva, or a Gracie themselves, deep inside. They are delusional.

    Again, that makes them just like TMAers who point to things like Shaolin, Musashi, Bruce Lee as validation, etc, instead of their own training. Conveniently, both MMA and TMA "guys" that do that sort of thing are the same ones who don't spar, or don't spar enough to progress to the levels of skill they claim their training should impart.

    "MMA guys" who train, but don't truly invest much time, walk away carrying themselves around like bosses. "TMA guys" have just been doing the same thing, longer.

    And those are the ones who ACTUALLY step foot in a gym. They are probably the 1%, with the other 99% having never even done so, and being even more vocal to the "other side". But they're not even in the peanut gallery.... they're roped off outside the building, waiting pass the bouncer..
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/26/2015 11:33am, .

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  • Permalost
    replied
    To me, complaining that some pro fighters act like thugs is like complaining about how heels in pro wrestling are jerks, because they rip kids' autograph books in half, push over suspiciously muscular old ladies, and call the local audience a bunch of hicks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omega Supreme
    replied
    Originally posted by ashkelon View Post
    true, but how many TMA'ers have this kind of exposure?
    I'd gather with the cult-like elements of many, and we have seen that on bullshido, there would be quite a number of abuse cases if they would be more exposed to the public.
    *raises hand

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  • Guird
    replied
    Originally posted by ashkelon View Post
    true, but how many TMA'ers have this kind of exposure?
    I'd gather with the cult-like elements of many, and we have seen that on bullshido, there would be quite a number of abuse cases if they would be more exposed to the public.
    Yeah, I've read plenty of horror stories here on bullshido. However, whether or not the TMA crowd has the same problems the fact that it's rampant and obvious in pro MMA doubtless contributes to the bad rep.

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  • ashkelon
    replied
    Originally posted by Guird View Post
    I think there's an elephant in the room that no one has mentioned. The behaviour of many professional combat athletes no doubt contributes to the image many TMA schools have of combat sports and MMA. A lot of them come across as violent even outside of the ring. Some of them intentionally cultivate that image just for entertainment or intimidation purposes, but there are also plenty with a domestic violence record to substantiate it. I don't find it surprising when TMA guys brand MMA guys as thugs, when a lot of the most publicly visible ones are.
    true, but how many TMA'ers have this kind of exposure?
    I'd gather with the cult-like elements of many, and we have seen that on bullshido, there would be quite a number of abuse cases if they would be more exposed to the public.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guird
    replied
    I think there's an elephant in the room that no one has mentioned. The behaviour of many professional combat athletes no doubt contributes to the image many TMA schools have of combat sports and MMA. A lot of them come across as violent even outside of the ring. Some of them intentionally cultivate that image just for entertainment or intimidation purposes, but there are also plenty with a domestic violence record to substantiate it. I don't find it surprising when TMA guys brand MMA guys as thugs, when a lot of the most publicly visible ones are.

    Leave a comment:


  • MP9
    replied
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Because MMA and Combat Sports have proven how ineffective their arts are and well they have to satisfy their own ego about the choices in life they have made.
    Also because most of them have little concept of the technical aspects of a combat sport.
    Intentionally or not, there is a dichotomy drawn here between "combat sports/'MMA'" and "traditional martial arts." Yes, it was the OP who actually assumed this apparently-universal dichotomy, but there it is.

    BJJ for example as you know is extremely technical but those who don't do any sort of ground fighting have no fucking clue as to how deep that rabbit hole goes.
    True. However, this statement contextually implies that A) BJJ is either a combat sport or MMA (and we can discard MMA as obviously wrong) and, since A is true, B) BJJ is not a traditional martial art since TMAs are apparently not combat sports (see above).
    However, the Gracies - and probably Kimura, who I'm sure you will recall as being the guy who beat Helio - apparently disagree that BJJ is not a traditional martial art. That, and the fact that several of the newer "TMAs" are, in fact, more recent inventions than BJJ and particularly Kodokan Judo. Refer to Kyokushin karate (which is also a combat sport).

    They have no idea of the artistry involved.
    They have no idea of the time sweat and blood it takes to to learn its depths.
    So they parrot the shit other TMAers say to make them selves feel good about themselves.

    The ego thing to me is the most funny.
    Participating in a Combat sport is so incredibly hard on ones ego its crazy.
    You constantly have to test yourself against people who are in fact better than you, and who in fact could kill you if they wanted to.
    You actually step into a situation where you can lose.
    Combat sports is better for developing a healthy ego than TMA arts are for sure.
    #NotAllTMA.

    But yes, combat sports are better for recognizing your limitations than non-combative pseudo-martial arts.

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  • The Cap
    replied
    Originally posted by ksennin View Post
    San Pedro Sula, Honduras, Central America.

    This is the sort of thing I get on facebook all of the time.

    https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...70&oe=5681BCF9
    I love how that is a picture of Jeff Monson, with the caption "has no philosophy" and "no control of his mind, body or spirit". Jeff Monson has a master's degree in psychology and was infamous for using his fighting victories as podiums to publicly expound on his political philosophies, which were heavily influenced by his readings of Tolstoy and other leftist thinkers. That picture shows that whoever's sharing it is ignorant and arrogant, and assumes a lot about people based on their appearances.

    Leave a comment:


  • ksennin
    replied
    Originally posted by NeilG View Post
    The weapon is the great equalizer. That and our arcane rules. No newbie can hope to score on me, even if he does physically smash through my defence and clobber me senseless.
    Reminds me of Hiro Protagonist's comments about kendo competition in SNOW CRASH.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeilG
    replied
    Originally posted by Holy Moment View Post
    I find that using pure brute strength brings me the most success, even when I'm the weaker guy.
    The weapon is the great equalizer. That and our arcane rules. No newbie can hope to score on me, even if he does physically smash through my defence and clobber me senseless.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeilG
    replied
    Originally posted by ksennin View Post
    The other guy I talked about who I have seen with kendo gear here is a former student of one of my past karate teachers.
    He has traveled several times to Japan and may have gotten a seminar or two, but when a guy starts talking about the virtues of Tennen Rishin Ryu and goes on about the Shinsengumi I figure he is just a Rurouni Kenshin fanboy wanting to do LRP.

    Where in Guatemala do they have kendo?
    There's a couple, here's the Guatemala Kendo Club

    Leave a comment:

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