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Archery: Now a Live Martial Art

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  • Bneterasedmynam
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    But Archery Tag is not the Boxing/Judo/BJJ/MT of archery, archery is one of the oldest battlefield arts, and my argument is just that real archers and their training trumps Archery Tag in terms of being truer to the "martial art" related to archery, whether we're talking target competition, hunting, or even Lars' trick shots.

    Archery Tag is more like LARPing, if anything, in the same way paintball is. It's role play in a mock battle using Nerf. That's why it's probably a lot of fun.

    I'm not busting on it for not being realistic (it doesn't have to be to be fun), I'm pointing out there are a zillion ways to more realistically train with and use a bow (and that includes killing things with one).

    If we saw a match of Archery Tag using real/serious/experienced archers especially those with experience with big game, I bet they'd be moving and shooting a lot more carefully, because that's how archers train for safety and accuracy. It wouldn't look nearly as fun or exciting, but only to some. To others it would look "real".
    I don't know if I would put it in the same category as LARPing, it has pretty good competition in it.

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  • Bneterasedmynam
    replied
    The only thing I would say that falls short on the archery tag is the draw weight. Shooting on the move with a bow that has a 60# draw is going to be a lot more difficult than one that has only 25-30. I have actually shot along side hunters at our local indoor ranges and I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of their arrows. However I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of anyone trained to shoot.

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  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    You're only splitting hairs because it doesn't live up to your martial purist fantasies.
    Riiight.

    Speaking of fantasies spoken to Coach Asin lately?

    I know something you don't know...la la la la.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Machette
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So you admit it's a game for fun, not a sport or a "live" martial art. That brings us square.

    Honestly, a "sport" version of this, with people who actually train archery proper, and utilize actual squad tactics...now that would be really cool.

    See my problem is having taken many bow safety courses, I keep thinking that if they were using real bows and arrows, they'd be killing their own teammates half the time from careless aim and wild shots.
    Call it what you want.

    Frankly if poker or disk golf can be sports I don't see why this should be excluded.

    You're only splitting hairs because it doesn't live up to your martial purist fantasies.

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  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    But why, especially if the Archery Target guy has never actually sunk a steel broad head into flesh.

    A hunter, on the other hand, has not only sunk those broad heads, they've slit the throats, drained and disemboweled the carcass, mounted the rack, butchered the game, and if they're lucky, they have frozen venison to last for a whole season.

    Maybe I'm just being a pighead, but the idea that running around that field with a bow and arrow makes you Katniss Everdeen or Hawkeye at home defense...I can't buy that.
    Because like all competition if they are taking it serious they are operating the bow while under the fight or flight hormonal stress against targets that are shooting back at them in close quarters with cover and other obstetricals.

    The problem is you only see it as some sort of silly game. Which one can play at it like that, but come on man they are now drug testing professional video game players for PEDS. People take this sort of shit serious. Yes you will have causals on the field but you will also have those guys that take it up that notch or 2.

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  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Here is the thing though, I am fairly sure your guy that goes and does Archery Tag with any sort of regularity is going to be more apt to kill an intruder in his house with a bow over say a hunter or a archery target shooter.
    But why, especially if the Archery Target guy has never actually sunk a steel broad head into flesh.

    A hunter, on the other hand, has not only sunk those broad heads, they've slit the throats, drained and disemboweled the carcass, mounted the rack, butchered the game, and if they're lucky, they have frozen venison to last for a whole season.

    Maybe I'm just being a pighead, but the idea that running around that field with a bow and arrow makes you Katniss Everdeen or Hawkeye at home defense...I can't buy that.

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Archery Tag is more like LARPing, if anything, in the same way paintball is. It's role play in a mock battle using Nerf. That's why it's probably a lot of fun.

    I'm not busting on it for not being realistic (it doesn't have to be to be fun), I'm pointing out there are a zillion ways to more realistically train with and use a bow (and that includes killing things with one).
    Here is the thing though, I am fairly sure your guy that goes and does Archery Tag with any sort of regularity is going to be more apt to kill an intruder in his house with a bow over say a hunter or a archery target shooter.

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    More like claiming, Boxing, Judo, BJJ, MT, or the what not won't work on the street cause its not the same as the old battle field Martial Art.
    But Archery Tag is not the Boxing/Judo/BJJ/MT of archery, archery is one of the oldest battlefield arts, and my argument is just that real archers and their training trumps Archery Tag in terms of being truer to the "martial art" related to archery, whether we're talking target competition, hunting, or even Lars' trick shots.

    Archery Tag is more like LARPing, if anything, in the same way paintball is. It's role play in a mock battle using Nerf. That's why it's probably a lot of fun.

    I'm not busting on it for not being realistic (it doesn't have to be to be fun), I'm pointing out there are a zillion ways to more realistically train with and use a bow (and that includes killing things with one).

    If we saw a match of Archery Tag using real/serious/experienced archers especially those with experience with big game, I bet they'd be moving and shooting a lot more carefully, because that's how archers train for safety and accuracy. It wouldn't look nearly as fun or exciting, but only to some. To others it would look "real".
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/14/2015 5:39pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    I think the point of the game is to have fun.
    They are not hunting or fighting or reenacting anything.
    Bitching that it wouldn't work in the street is kind of like drinking orange juice and yelling "this coffee sucks".
    So you admit it's a game for fun, not a sport or a "live" martial art. That brings us square.

    Honestly, a "sport" version of this, with people who actually train archery proper, and utilize actual squad tactics...now that would be really cool.

    See my problem is having taken many bow safety courses, I keep thinking that if they were using real bows and arrows, they'd be killing their own teammates half the time from careless aim and wild shots.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/14/2015 5:31pm, .

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  • Permalost
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    She takes issue with his methods (reviewing old art), but doesn't outright claim he's wrong, because he could be right just using an unreliable process (her argument is ancient artists may not have known a thing about archery either)).
    In the historical fencing class I go to, there's a compilation of old books where we get the material, and some of the illustrations/woodcuts are clearly different than what's described (yesterday, the teacher showed me a pic where a guy has 2 right hands). Sometimes a martial artist is poor at drawing, sometimes a visual artist is poor at martial arts.

    Leave a comment:


  • goodlun
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    I think the point of the game is to have fun.
    They are not hunting or fighting or reenacting anything.
    Bitching that it wouldn't work in the street is kind of like drinking orange juice and yelling "this coffee sucks".
    More like claiming, Boxing, Judo, BJJ, MT, or the what not won't work on the street cause its not the same as the old battle field Martial Art.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Machette
    replied
    I think the point of the game is to have fun.
    They are not hunting or fighting or reenacting anything.
    Bitching that it wouldn't work in the street is kind of like drinking orange juice and yelling "this coffee sucks".

    Leave a comment:


  • W. Rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    There was actually a pretty good argument going between Lars and some hunter that mimicked this one. Basically the hunter said Lars was a fake.
    Yeah people still tell me the Moon Landing, 9/11, and Sandy Hook were fake too, with complex diagrams and logical sounding arguments, like her (the hunter's) arguments on Facebook. I've read that breakdown and quite a few other people claiming he is a "Fake". People on Youtube have even claimed digital editing.

    Others have authored blog articles about how he was "debunked". Only I have yet to see any actual debunking of what appears to be on film, a very agile archer with unique skills, having only trained for 10 years, training in ways that are not currently popular among target shooters or hunters, but clearly were used once upon a time.

    Obviously it's a demo video he set up to showcase trick shots. So, people point to the setups as fakery, or claim that multiple shots are required....no shit. Nobody's perfect..

    But that doesn't make him fake, and Snopes ruled out digital editing.

    I think the traditional archers are just butthurt they can't do what he clearly shows on film he can.

    Anna didn't seem to question his skill, just actually some of the narration claims.

    This is Anna's actual response to Lars. It's been misused to call him "fake" but clearly she's not claiming that. This is just typical "Classical" vs "New Wave" pedantry. Lars is probably off on some of his historical claims...but the skill in the videos is clear (and is claim that the techniques are at least as old as the Assyrian Empire seems accurate. She takes issue with his methods (reviewing old art), but doesn't outright claim he's wrong, because he could be right just using an unreliable process (her argument is ancient artists may not have known a thing about archery either)).

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/14/2015 4:45pm, .

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  • Bneterasedmynam
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    OK I can see your point, but where I have difficulty is that hitting things with arrows is truly one of the greatest precision sports. Archery Tag is wild chaotic happy time fun, half of them are kids. It seems like "spray and pray" archery to me. Maybe I'm being a jerk about it but..

    Very few people are holding or firing the bows the way they would if they actually wanted to hit someone or better, avoid an arrow in their throat. They're taking a lot of risks etc no one in their right mind would take in a real combat encounter with arrows flying.

    Bnet, you brought up Lars Anderson possibly the best run and shoot archer on the planet alive today.

    The huge gap between what Lars can do, and what they do at Archery Tag, should stick out to people.

    Lars could probably take out both Archery Tag teams, but he doesn't do Archery Tag. He does "the real" Martial Archery.

    There was actually a pretty good argument going between Lars and some hunter that mimicked this one. Basically the hunter said Lars was a fake.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bneterasedmynam
    replied
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I re-read it and even they're not sure, they're calling them "tips for projectiles", too small to be spear tips.

    Pinky-sized is pretty darn small...maybe they were for darts.

    Blowguns are also really old Stone Age weapons and could use tipped projectiles. It sucks we don't know more about the Howiesons Poort technology. From what I read about them they had other technology advanced for their age, including evidence of clothmaking and traps.
    It's possible that's what they are we have no way of knowing. Either way it's not an argument worth arguing from my point of view so I will opt out.

    Leave a comment:

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