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Wing Tsun Response to BJJ

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    #46
    Originally posted by bobbypaycheque View Post
    I get it, I'm a noob. However, it doesn't take GSP to tell you that a guy in that kind of shape walking forward, not moving his head and making slapping motions isn't the best kind of fighter that he can be. I can't find any record of this guy when I Google his name. Only information I found was here on bullshido and his own website that had no source links. I didn't really dig deep into the search, only spent five minutes but still. Wasn't able to find his semi-pro boxing record anywhere. It's cool that he wants to bring more aliveness to WC but that demonstration was terrible. Would like to see his WC skills against a skilled opponent, rather than the guys who he demonstrates to in his videos. I have to say Dominick Izzo's Wing Chun looks more effective and seems drilled a lot more alive. Did you get a chance to spar with him when you met him?
    Please post some links to video of Izzo doing alive sparring or competing. Anything you can find that looks like judo randori in terms of aliveness ?

    I haven't seen him do anything full speed with resistance/opposition. I'd love to though, not saying he does not or has not.

    Izzo likes to talk a lot.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
      Sifu Moore (the Wing Chun guy you made fun of) is a very well known full contact fighter, coach, Wing Chun guru, and a Kuoshu judge.

      Hilarious is your own record in comparison, I'll bet.

      The delusion is entirely yours. Lurk more, post less.

      Bump, and raise a video, because I'm such a pushover I actually took 5 seconds to find a video with some of Sifu Shannon "Big Mountain" Moore's competition clips and training footage.



      Yep, I still won the bet.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
        Bump, and raise a video, because I'm such a pushover I actually took 5 seconds to find a video with some of Sifu Moore's competition clips.



        Yep, I still won the bet.
        You are such a sucker !

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post



          Yep, I still won the bet.
          Yeah, see, I saw that. In his training he's running over people that weigh less than what he has for breakfast who are sticking their legs in his general direction and otherwise don't do a lot and the competition footage is some point fighting stuff. I mean, he's "winning" in sparring against guys whose idea of an attack is slowly walking towards you with their hands at their waists and who defend punches to the face by paddling at the air like a dog.

          I'm not convinced, is what I'm saying.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Azatdawn View Post
            I'm not convinced, is what I'm saying.
            But not convinced of what? He's a guy with full contact experience, who trains and actively takes part in full contact events, and cross trains with all sorts of people inside and outside Wing Chun.

            Nobody claimed he was superman or a champion fighter.

            Someone (with very little contact experience) claimed he was fat and deluded and can't fight. Let's separate these things...he's big, but he's not deluded, and he can fight. He's considered expert enough in Wing Chun to judge demonstrations and forms competitions, so he really does it all.

            He's just not the typical Chunbot Bob was looking for. If anything he's on our side of the spectrum. Attacking him because he's big and calling him "deluded" simply because he likes Wing Chun (he likes boxing too)...not fair to the man.

            I wouldn't be so sure of this if I hadn't met him myself or watched his videos, but if you take the time, his online instructional videos are pretty honest and legit.

            Remember this guy was a full contact (boxing and kung fu) competitor way back in the dark ages before UFC, when there was almost no competition in kung fu.

            Now in 2015 there is a lot more competition and more contact and this Sifu is a big promoter of that, so he should be considered an ally, not a target of Bullshido ire...especially if that ire is from newbs who are trying to win points by trotting out the standard tropes of "LOL Chun", big sifu.

            Watch the original video of him and the "karate black belt" again. It's fucking hilarious, this guy starts smack talking and Moore just says "come show me" and then plows through the guy's idea of karate.

            It wasn't fancy or special, but that's how kung fu is supposed to work.
            Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/14/2015 6:24pm, .

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
              But not convinced of what? He's a guy with full contact experience, who trains and actively takes part in full contact events, and cross trains with all sorts of people inside and outside Wing Chun.
              Yeah, thanks. It just took me seconds to find his full contact record and the names and dates of the full contact tournaments he's won. Also, those full contact fight videos were spectacular. Not just some chi sao, nuh-uh. I'm glad I don't just have to take your word for it.

              Comment


                #52
                Here's his school and bio.

                http://www.wckungfu.com/index.cfm?page=8

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                  Here's his school and bio.

                  http://www.wckungfu.com/index.cfm?page=8
                  I saw that, too. How is it any different from the sort of bio that gets made fun of or challenged around here. If he fought at a national level, why not include the names of some of those tournaments?

                  I don't even care about the guy... He might be nice and he certainly thinks his stuff works. You're the one who's started to make claims about how he's such a well-known full contact fighter.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Azatdawn View Post
                    I saw that, too. How is it any different from the sort of bio that gets made fun of or challenged around here. If he fought at a national level, why not include the names of some of those tournaments?

                    I don't even care about the guy... He might be nice and he certainly thinks his stuff works. You're the one who's started to make claims about how he's such a well-known full contact fighter.
                    Based on what I've seen, read, heard, and been told.

                    If we start making fun of overweight people doing martial arts, cast the first stone. Just make sure the stone isn't cast at someone who actually fights, and trains fighters.

                    Are we Bullshido, or are we 4chan? Give the 'liveness Chunners a break now and then. Moore is your kind of people, I guarantee it.
                    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/15/2015 12:18am, .

                    Comment


                      #55
                      One of said guy's students:



                      See for yourself whether they merit your esteem.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                        But not convinced of what? He's a guy with full contact experience, who trains and actively takes part in full contact events, and cross trains with all sorts of people inside and outside Wing Chun.


                        Remember this guy was a full contact (boxing and kung fu) competitor way back in the dark ages before UFC, when there was almost no competition in kung fu.

                        Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                        At least when challenged to prove claims, I do it.
                        Go crazy.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by baby_cart View Post
                          One of said guy's students:

                          See for yourself whether they merit your esteem.
                          Wait..."esteem"?

                          See this is your own problem, not theirs or mine.

                          You appear to believe now you are a judge and jury over amateur fighters. You've moved the goalposts from "he fights and trains full contact amateurs and boxed semi-pro" to "merit".

                          Now, you want to GRADE people, especially amateurs? What's your measuring stick, brah?

                          Seriously, go blow your smoke up someone else's ass.

                          So obviously the next question is let's see your qualifications to judge amateur competition. Post your own amateur fight video, training history, credentials, and record, and feel free to give us a REAL critique of the video you just posted instead of taking the cowardly approach you've taken so far.

                          These amateurs should merit respect because this video exists, and it proves everything I said.

                          But you're the amazing amateur fighter and coach who's going to set me straight, right baby?

                          Seriously, get lost off BS, go troll MAP you have an easier time there.
                          Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/15/2015 10:12am, .

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by Azatdawn View Post
                            Go crazy.
                            I said he had been a full contact fighter, he's trained full contact amateurs for decades, and yep there's a video of one of his amateurs and baby_cart now wants to move goal posts and make it a different discussion. Now people want to start being pedantic about the quality of amateurs?

                            Is THAT what you're here to do, net snipe amateur competitors? Fine I can't wait to get your own video and snipe and see how fat your coach and friends are and point it out to the internet. Am I making my point yet?

                            Get. Shit. on. Seriously, fuck off.

                            The truth is Sifu Moore and his school fight, and most of you, probably don't fight at that level, at all.

                            You just like to talk and pretend that you do (most of you)

                            So...back to claims and proof. I posted a video here that proved my statements. Done. You want to start nitpicking ammy comp?

                            You better post some videos of your own, pal so we can actually gauge your own fat ass.

                            And no proof the people bitching about Moore have done jack shit for amateur comp, or martial arts in general. That's for damn sure. Just the same old tired biases and opinions.

                            Moore is big, but he's not a hack or deluded. Say it and keep in mind you're talking about a real person who deserves a far different response from Bullshido.

                            He is big in the full contact ammy scene and you all need the just shut the fuck up about him and move on to a worthy target.
                            Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/15/2015 10:11am, .

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Rabbit, there's a distinction being made here about Moore that you are not noticing. It affects this discussion and perhaps many others.

                              Simply participating in full-contact matches warrants only a limited amount of respect.

                              That's it.

                              If someone signs up for the lei tai and shows up and takes their licks, that's a mark in their favor. I count this for judo and BJJ tournaments, too, but full-contact striking is a step above. They put themselves out there. They tested themselves and their training. In a way, that's a lot. It's more than most.

                              But in another way, it ain't shit. Someone can show up for a match, do nothing effective, demonstrate the failures of their training, and lose. Good on them for testing themselves! I respect them for that measure of heart. But they haven't done anything to gain my belief in their skills. If they get punched in the face and turn away, like I would if I fought today, that says something bad about their training and maybe about their heart. Same if they gas, like I have in grappling matches. Getting trounced in a full-contact match doesn't make me think someone is a good fighter or is teaching soundly.

                              I have very little opinion on Moore, but you said this: "[he] is a very well known full contact fighter, coach, Wing Chun guru, and a Kuoshu judge. Hilarious is your own record in comparison, I'll bet."

                              Is being well known evidence of skill? Is being a judge? Leaving aside the wing chun, is being a "guru" evidence of someone I should respect? And what *is* his record?

                              The video of his student looks good. I commend him for coaching people on the lei tai. But that doesn't put him beyond reproach. People aren't moving the goalposts: the goalposts are "what is his record" and "maybe you could show me a video of him competing that has more than just one side kick and one kick catch both from point-fighting competitions". Beating on his smaller, less experienced students in their backyard or living room is a point *against* him, not in his favor.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                You claimed he's fought full-contact in boxing and kung-fu. As of right now, I see no proof of this. You will provide none, I'm pretty sure. So yeah, don't bother with dem paragraphs no more.

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