Bruce Lee thrown out of WC because...

[baby_cart]

Not sure if this was the right section to post this, but I really want serious responses on this.

According to this, Bruce Lee was thrown out of his parent art for behaving like a nether region:

Flip side of that coin, I have two grandmasters in my lineage that threw Lee out for being an asshole. And a sifu (whose busted up face tells about his street fights experience) who was a childhood friend of Lee's. He told a different story about Lee's 'legend' as a streetfighter in Hong Kong. Yet Lee's fame in the West is so great that he is thought of a the great mystic warrior and these guys --who did a lot more live fire **** (including surviving wars)-- are unknown.

from http://en.allexperts.com/q/Self-Defe...-arts-west.htm

Can any MA historian shed some light on this? Was Lee's behavior considered rude in the Orient but acceptable in the West, or was he really out of line?

[ghost55]

I don't need to be a historian to see a bullshit "sport vs. street" rant when I see one. Chunners are just salty that Bruce Lee is more popular then they are and has publicly stated that the chun is a waste of time.

[JudOWNED]

I don't need to be a historian to see a bullshit "sport vs. street" rant when I see one. Chunners are just salty that Bruce Lee is more popular then they are and has publicly stated that the chun is a waste of time.

I gotta agree. I mean, does the legend of Bruce Lee overrate the abilities and prowess of the actual man? Probably. But that doesn't really make anything else in that article true. I mean, it's got all the hallmarks of traditional BS.

Secret arts and techniques that weren't shared with common students (aka No True Scotsman fallacy)? Check!

Unverified stories about unnamed "masters"? Check!

Unsupported claims about "real killers" that would destroy "sports" guys in the street? Check!


So, yeah. You can pretty much dismiss everything in that article.

[W. Rabbit]

the least effective way of attacking another human was emphasized -- punching. Yeah, stop and think about it, if punching is all that effective then why do boxing and MMA matches last so long?

A punch by itself ain't shit. The real injuries from a punch are usually because the guy loses his balance and hits his head.

This is the best part.

[ghost55]

This is the best part.

These are the words of a man that has never been hit in the face by a trained dude wearing 4oz glove. Or 16oz gloves. Or any gloves.

[Permalost]

According to a little known wing chun master I know, Bruce Lee was actually kicked out of wing chun because whenever he crossed hands with a real wing chun man, his structure would collapse as he tried to cover his crying eyes with his hands while mincing away at the thought of being hurt. Or so the legend goes.

[Mr. Machette]

I thought Lee 86'd himself form the chun when he created JKD. The backlash from chunners was just sour grapes.

[baby_cart]

I don't need to be a historian to see a bullshit "sport vs. street" rant when I see one. Chunners are just salty that Bruce Lee is more popular then they are and has publicly stated that the chun is a waste of time.

I don't give a fuck about the argument the article's making. You just started an OP-ED without verification of facts. What if the facts were true? What if they were false? The argument has no bearing if what is asked is about a certain fact.

I am asking about the HISTORY. Go start a thread if you have an issue to the theme of the article.

I thought Lee 86'd himself form the chun when he created JKD. The backlash from chunners was just sour grapes.

That's what I read about too. Then this tidbit came up. If his reason for separation from his WC group was retconned due to JKD, then something's up. MacYoung's sources are on scrutiny here.

[JudOWNED]

Are you kidding me dude? You actually want to have a serious discussion about the so-called history presented in this farce of an article? A so called history that is anonymous and completely unsupported and that contradicts Lee's own side of what happened?

Good luck.

[ghost55]

If 99% of something is definitely full of shit, I'm not going to take the 1% that only is most likely shit seriously.

[W. Rabbit]

These are the words of a man that has never been hit in the face by a trained dude wearing 4oz glove. Or 16oz gloves. Or any gloves.

Or even somebody who has watched many boxing or MMA matches.

I read that article one more time...it's even worse than the first. Easily one of the worst articles on Bruce Lee ever written so I'm not sure why we're even discussing it.

Trying to fight in a self-defense situation is likely to get you killed

Drat, so much for martial arts. If you use them, you will probably just die.

[Mor Sao]

Okay,

Let me explain something that the OP has forgotten.

Bruce Lee is dead, buried and rotten.

Who the fuck cares about a dead, buried skeleton?

not me.

Push ups bitch.

Many fucking pushups.

[BackFistMonkey]

Are you kidding me dude? You actually want to have a serious discussion about the so-called history presented in this farce of an article? A so called history that is anonymous and completely unsupported and that contradicts Lee's own side of what happened?

Good luck.

It just might boil down to dude not being aware how flawed that "history" and it's sources are.

99% blah wrong 1% fuck it blah blah

I don't agree with outright dismissing it ALL. Some of the info required brief consideration before cast into the "well duh" pile of insight and historical knowledge which means it is correct and to the obtuse that would mean you are saying they are incorrect.

--- edit --- now that I think on it, making a list of what is fact would be shorter than listing what it incorrect, hearsay, or conjecture. ---/edit---

[JudOWNED]

"It just might boil down to dude not being aware how flawed that "history" and it's sources are."

Could very well be the case. I mean for me, it's been a while, but I have read everything about Lee I could. From Tao to that web-published unauthorized biography (can't remember what it was called atm). Also watched countless interviews with contemporaries. And from what I've gleaned, it doesn't make sense at all that Lee was "thrown out of WC."

First of all, what does that even mean? WC was not a monolithic entity to be thrown out of. And, while there are some stories of Lee training under other instructors when he got to the states, most agree that he immediately started doing his own thing and rather training WITH people rather than under them (as instructors or masters). And the few stories I have heard about him actually taking instruction weren't with WC guys anyway. So the idea that he trained under some WC "masters" who eventually kicked him out (of what? Their individual schools?) seems unlikely at best.

Besides, the article gives us so little information as to be functionally useless. No dates. No names. No details. There is literally no information to prove or disprove. Just one guys wacky and anonymous claims. How can you have a serious historical discussion about that?

[BackFistMonkey]

Besides, the article gives us so little information as to be functionally useless. No dates. No names. No details. There is literally no information to prove or disprove. Just one guys wacky and anonymous claims. How can you have a serious historical discussion about that?

I still don't know why this isn't in YMAS now that you mention it ...

edit:

ahhh it is more than likely because I forgot to ask the last time I thought about it. I couldn't find the right button and wondered off... I just found it.