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    Are you working for free?

    Many people are in this field. Sweeping floors and teaching classes all of which generate revenue for the dojo. This is a professional field. Either your work has value or it doesn't. If you can't man up and ask for your pay, then please, leave the business, because it's fucking us all over, thank you.

    #2
    Originally posted by The Villain View Post
    Many people are in this field. Sweeping floors and teaching classes all of which generate revenue for the dojo. This is a professional field. Either your work has value or it doesn't. If you can't man up and ask for your pay, then please, leave the business, because it's fucking us all over, thank you.
    Please clarify what exactly you are talking about.

    Our judo dojo is not for profit...I don't take money for teaching, and neither does anyone else there.

    If we were to get big enough some compensation might happen, however, right now, we are able to pay our lease and utilities.

    Not everyone teaches MA for profit, for their own reasons.

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      #3
      I'm talking about working for free at a for profit school. If you're taking in money to pay rent and utilities, thats different.

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        #4
        I made minimum wage teaching at a for-profit school for a few years.

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          #5
          Even if people are working for free, what of it? It's their choice. For-profit schools aren't very profitable, I'm sure many would close their doors without volunteers.

          I teach at a YMCA. It's non-profit but some people are getting paid. Not me, but I don't mind. Beats the hell out of having to locate and rent space, then collect dues. I've got a day job that pays the bills just fine.

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            #6
            Originally posted by The Villain View Post
            I'm talking about working for free at a for profit school. If you're taking in money to pay rent and utilities, thats different.
            OK, that makes more sense in that context. Thanks

            How common is what you describe ? I'd think that a relatively skilled, trained professional MA teacher would not work for free (in a for-profit context).


            Are the folks who concern you lower level students who teach classes for free ? Or maybe for a discount on school fees? Is it full time teaching, or just helping out ?

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              #7
              Fucks up the whole industry and devalues the work. You're saying to your clients and/or employers that what you do has no value. That you paid nothing for it and this can give it away for free. They might mistake that for what I do, or any of the other professionals in this field, and this expect my knowledge for free.

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                #8
                I'm not going to get into specifics, as it's a legal matter, but I've seen a wide variety of set ups. I've seen part time work for free, free cleaning and labor, and a number of other arrangements. When I purchase the services of any other field, I don't see such activity. Who's working for free at the McDonalds? No one. Ever. The car dealership? No one. Academia? No one. You go to class, dude's getting paid. Time to step the game up.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by The Villain View Post
                  I'm not going to get into specifics, as it's a legal matter, but I've seen a wide variety of set ups. I've seen part time work for free, free cleaning and labor, and a number of other arrangements. When I purchase the services of any other field, I don't see such activity. Who's working for free at the McDonalds? No one. Ever. The car dealership? No one. Academia? No one. You go to class, dude's getting paid. Time to step the game up.
                  I would exclude academia from your examples. Lots of non traditional wage work going on. If you include athletics it is even worse.

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                    #10
                    True.

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                      #11
                      I always find it weird when I see people volunteer at a for profit place be it a for profit hospitals, Gym/Dojos, Schools, paint ball fields, gaming stores, mostly hobby related businesses.
                      I once told a college professor who had a bit of an attitude that I was a customer and he better treat me as such so I guess I am weird. Oddly enough his attitude did actually shift some.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Villain View Post
                        Fucks up the whole industry and devalues the work. You're saying to your clients and/or employers that what you do has no value. That you paid nothing for it and this can give it away for free. They might mistake that for what I do, or any of the other professionals in this field, and this expect my knowledge for free.
                        OK, I get it. We had similar discussion in the Judo world (in the US at least) before BJJ was even a blip on the MA radar in the US. Most judo dojo (in the US) are not for profit, although that is slowly changing. For us in Judo, the issue of low, low, prices/fees for instruction was related to perceived value, which is what I read you to mean in this post.

                        The logic (in judo world) was that Judo instruction was cheap relative to karate, TKD, etc. etc. (and then BJJ/MMA when it became more popular/widespread), ie., competitors with Judo for students. That cheapness was perceived as Judo instruction being of lower value than other MA training. Of course, that might well be true depending on what a consumer wants from MA training, and the quality of the Judo instruction.

                        So I'm curious, to what degree is what you describe common in the BJJ/MMA business? My impression is that BJJ/MMA instruction is pretty professionally oriented, i.e., for-profit.

                        On a slightly different note, BJJ/MMA WILL eventually get more and more "McDojo-fied" and "watered down" with time, it's inevitably, and has happened with most if not all "modern" MA.

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                          #13
                          I'd like to work for free. I was at a McDojo a few weeks back that was charging its members upwards of $275 for instruction that almost certainly made them worse at fighting than they already were. If I could teach some doods shit that actually works without charging them, I'd feel like I would be balancing out the equation a bit.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by The Villain View Post
                            I'm not going to get into specifics, as it's a legal matter, but I've seen a wide variety of set ups. I've seen part time work for free, free cleaning and labor, and a number of other arrangements. When I purchase the services of any other field, I don't see such activity. Who's working for free at the McDonalds? No one. Ever. The car dealership? No one. Academia? No one. You go to class, dude's getting paid. Time to step the game up.
                            But don't individual business owners have the right to receive "payment in kind" if they want. That's not uncommon in the business world, especially small businesses, sole proprietorships, etc., which is where most MA schools probably fall into.

                            Working at Micky D's, car dealerships, is a bit different...big corporation

                            Payment in kind is payment, just not monetary kind.

                            I do see your point though, especially if you are a professional MA teacher (I was for a while) whose major source of income is teaching MA. You can get undermined by less experienced people who will work for payment in kind or even lower wages.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                              I always find it weird when I see people volunteer at a for profit place be it a for profit hospitals, Gym/Dojos, Schools, paint ball fields, gaming stores, mostly hobby related businesses.
                              I once told a college professor who had a bit of an attitude that I was a customer and he better treat me as such so I guess I am weird. Oddly enough his attitude did actually shift some.
                              I pulled the "customer" thing a few times in college myself, and in grad school too.

                              Not the most popular line to take, LOL !

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