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    Rules of Randori

    I saw this on a blog;

    "In Judo Randori is described by Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, in a speech at the 1932 Los Angeles Olympic Games: "Randori, meaning "free exercise", is practiced under conditions of actual contest. It includes throwing, choking, holding the opponent down, and bending or twisting his arms or legs. The two combatants may use whatever methods they like provided they do not hurt each other and obey the rules of Judo concerning etiquette, which are essential to its proper working."

    http://stuartjudo.blogspot.com/searc...&by-date=false

    I thought this was really fascinating because it seems like Kano was saying that leg locks were allowed in randori at the time, and that any throwing technique was allowed unless it was done with bad intention or dangerously (like purposefully spiking a guy on his head with ura nage or something)

    I also have no clue if the statement is really Kano's or if it is accurate.

    At my club, our randori is shaped by the current contest rules. I understand that many of the folks there compete and it would be impractical for them to train in techniques no longer allowed.

    I'm definitely not trying to start a "the new rules suck" shit storm thread.

    But, I am curious:

    1. At your club (BJJ, Judo, SAMBO, etc.) what is randori/sparring like?
    Can you use pretty much any technique as long as you are being controlled and safe?

    Are you allowed to use techniques which are not allowed in your sports ruleset?

    2. If your answer to the above is yes, than do you wish it was more restrictive for whatever reason?

    If your answer to the above is no, than do you wish that free practice was more diverse when it comes to technique?

    I'm really interested in people's current opinions on this.

    #2
    At my BJJ club it's pretty open within reason and I'm glad for it. Take for example knee bars and toe holds. As a purple belt I cannot do these in competition, but I frequently do them when rolling.

    That said I'm pretty judicious when applying the moves. I don't do them to the newer people and I'm careful not to be forceful with them.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app

    Comment


      #3
      My club is, sadly, rather invested in IBJJF competition, which means that our training is sort of molded after that ruleset, which carries over into free rolling. Any IBJJF rule infraction (typically toe holds or kneebars at too low belt levels or the stupid knee reaping thing) will earn you a "yup, you're DQ'ed". That said, there's a small handful of guys (almost exclusively white belts) who are more open, and will agree to, very carefully, roll with neck-cranks or what have you on a case-by-case basis.

      Comment


        #4
        http://pitfight7.wordpress.com/2014/...hile-sparring/

        Comment


          #5
          Hmm, /thread?

          Comment


            #6
            Sounds about right.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
              I saw this on a blog;

              "In Judo Randori is described by Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, in a speech at the 1932 Los Angeles Olympic Games: "Randori, meaning "free exercise", is practiced under conditions of actual contest. It includes throwing, choking, holding the opponent down, and bending or twisting his arms or legs. The two combatants may use whatever methods they like provided they do not hurt each other and obey the rules of Judo concerning etiquette, which are essential to its proper working."

              http://stuartjudo.blogspot.com/searc...&by-date=false

              I thought this was really fascinating because it seems like Kano was saying that leg locks were allowed in randori at the time, and that any throwing technique was allowed unless it was done with bad intention or dangerously (like purposefully spiking a guy on his head with ura nage or something)

              I also have no clue if the statement is really Kano's or if it is accurate.

              At my club, our randori is shaped by the current contest rules. I understand that many of the folks there compete and it would be impractical for them to train in techniques no longer allowed.

              I'm definitely not trying to start a "the new rules suck" shit storm thread.

              But, I am curious:

              1. At your club (BJJ, Judo, SAMBO, etc.) what is randori/sparring like?
              Can you use pretty much any technique as long as you are being controlled and safe?

              Are you allowed to use techniques which are not allowed in your sports ruleset?

              2. If your answer to the above is yes, than do you wish it was more restrictive for whatever reason?

              If your answer to the above is no, than do you wish that free practice was more diverse when it comes to technique?

              I'm really interested in people's current opinions on this.
              There are different ways to do randori, from give and take throwing to full on competition rule set war games. So it all depends on what your training goals are for the specific training time.

              In our dojo, we conform mostly to the current IJF ruleset. I, however, will do leg picks to my students, as I do not compete anymore, and it keeps them on their toes. Plus, they love to yell "hansokumake!" at me as they fly through the air or after they hit the tatami.

              If students want to practice hand to leg attacks/counters, they are free to do so, but if they get DQ'ed in a shiai I get to tell them "I told you so".

              Leg submissions have not been allowed in judo randori or shiai for a long time. I don't remember the latest date before they were disallowed. Who knows what exactly Kano was referring to. He was speaking in generalities, more than likely.

              Comment


                #8
                Did Holy Moment just link us to his blog? Because it's FANTASTIC.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post

                  Leg submissions have not been allowed in judo randori or shiai for a long time. I don't remember the latest date before they were disallowed.
                  Probably really early on. I would think that the risk was much greater than today. Messed up knee back then was probably a crippling injury for the rest of your life.

                  Not that it can't be a crippling injury now...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think that might be considered the bible of randori to some guys I know haha

                    My favorite is when you sub someone you don't usually sub, and he get riled up and really starts to attack you from then on. "Were just training" doesn't seem to affect them at all for some reason...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      We allow anything we teach. We don't teach leglocks or strikes but we do teach throws that involve hand contact below the waist. I think competition clubs are better served by using whatever rules are current to avoid confusion.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Since we're in YMAS, where does oil checking stand?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My main club is very beginner orientated, so we generally encourage everyone to keep it sleeve-and-lapel, competition legal.

                          Every now and then though I'll have a round where I'm just goofing around with one of my buddies and I might try something like a kata-guruma off a 2 on 1 grip.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
                            Since we're in YMAS, where does oil checking stand?
                            It's only polite to engage in foreplay prior to attempting full penetration.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mr.HoneyBadger View Post
                              Probably really early on. I would think that the risk was much greater than today. Messed up knee back then was probably a crippling injury for the rest of your life.

                              Not that it can't be a crippling injury now...
                              I think it was in the 19-teens, possibly as late as around the time of the lecture you posted a quote from. My guess is that judo was getting very popular, as it had been introduced and established in the school system, and they began seeing more and more leg injuries.

                              Surgery to repair knees and ankles back then was I would guess non-existent, as were antibiotics. Being permanently crippled was not a good thing.

                              Comment

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