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    Crazy Monkey Defense Opinions

    What is the general consensus in the Bullshido community regarding Crazy Monkey Defense(CMD)? I have done a little research since hearing about it recently and so far am very interested and really love the material I've seen so far. I'm just curious to hear any opinions from Bullshido members around the globe about this.

    #2
    It seemed to gain some traction here in the mid 2000s, but haven't heard anything about it lately. One could definitely do worse.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by GLOCKshooter View Post
      What is the general consensus in the Bullshido community regarding Crazy Monkey Defense(CMD)? I have done a little research since hearing about it recently and so far am very interested and really love the material I've seen so far. I'm just curious to hear any opinions from Bullshido members around the globe about this.
      I'd never heard of it before, but after checking out a couple of vids, it seems like a good covering technique against a barrage of close in punches. Is there more to it?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Permalost View Post
        It seemed to gain some traction here in the mid 2000s, but haven't heard anything about it lately.
        Since Rodney left SBGi crazy monkey lost impulse.


        One could definitely do worse.
        This.

        CM is not the Holy Grail but works fine.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Permalost View Post
          It seemed to gain some traction here in the mid 2000s, but haven't heard anything about it lately. One could definitely do worse.
          It is a name I have not heard in a while
          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/
          GlockShooter where abouts are you?
          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/united-states/
          gives the locations of gyms that teach it.
          I would be more inclined to look at the gym itself to see how well their fighters are doing over all then to buy into CMD itself.
          As it seems to be yet another martial arts vendor certification.

          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/un...s/?store_id=30
          So here is the gym that is local to me that offers it
          http://www.swiftkickma.com/
          I personally wouldn't train at Swift Kick and certainly not just to learn CMD.
          The fact that Swift Kick is certified to train it also gives me pause about the quality control measures on who gets certified.
          To put things in perspective the head instructor there is a
          Black Belt in Applied Martial Arts

          Originally posted by Permalost View Post
          It seemed to gain some traction here in the mid 2000s, but haven't heard anything about it lately. One could definitely do worse.
          It is a name I have not heard in a while
          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/
          GlockShooter where abouts are you?
          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/united-states/
          gives the locations of gyms that teach it.
          I would be more inclined to look at the gym itself to see how well their fighters are doing over all then to buy into CMD itself.
          As it seems to be yet another martial arts vendor certification.

          http://www.crazymonkeydefense.com/united-states/?store_id=30
          So here is the gym that is local to me that offers it
          http://www.swiftkickma.com/
          I personally wouldn't train at Swift Kick and certainly not just to learn CMD.
          The fact that Swift Kick is certified to train it also gives me pause about the quality control measures on who gets certified.
          To put things in perspective the head instructor there is a
          Black Belt in Applied Martial Arts

          Comment


            #6
            Wow!.... looks like Rodney has taken the Mcdojo route. What a pity, I liked his work.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DCS View Post
              Wow!.... looks like Rodney has taken the Mcdojo route. What a pity, I liked his work.
              I mean I could be mistaken the guys at Swift Kick may be awesome at it..........

              Comment


                #8

                This kid is clearly doing CMD.

                How Rodney can keep quality control on CMD licensed gyms? Don't know. As I said before, I liked and used pieces of it. I hope CMD does not get watered down.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I've done a little, a very little, bit of CMD second-hand via the coach-of-an-old-coach and I enjoyed the material immensely and still use some of it.

                  However, there's a disturbing trend on Mr King's youtube channel of "life coaching" type content and videos promoting spiritual and mental development over fighting.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I like what I've seen from the system for self defense, as it makes a lot of sense. It is simple, and it is based on boxing with a high guard. What is not to like? In a streetfight, guys always headhunt, and it does a good job of guarding your head.

                    But for any decent self-defense system, the instructor is more important than the style. If you can't find a good Crazy Monkey instructor, I pretty much guarantee that you can find a decent boxing coach, and just apply of CM's principles when it comes to self defense outside of the ring.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi guys, my name is Nathan Wagar, I'm a Pro-Trainer in CM, and I'd like to make a few points in response to some of the posts on this thread.

                      1. CM is not a covering system, it is an integrated methodology designed to teach the standup game through all the various ranges. Modified bobbing and weaving, more advanced counter-strikes, feints, draws, evasive techniques, dirty boxing, and subtleties in distance are all part of the core curriculum. This is all without getting into the specific self-preservation or military-specific curriculum.

                      2. The CM program has not fallen off since Rodney left SBG, any more than Adam Singer, Paul Sharp or Jerry Wetzel have (Paul just did a seminar at my gym a couple weekends ago). We have chosen to broaden our client focus beyond people that just want to fight. Hell Cecil Burch was just on SWAT TV with former Delta operator Kyle Lamb, teaching him CM, and I teach a few of the Secret Service out here in NM. Who should we be making inroads with?

                      3. I am the anomaly in that I started my gym from the ground up. Many of our trainers do still have backgrounds in, and a love for traditional martial arts, and it would be foolish to assert that they must simply turn away their pre-existing client base. I assure you that Brian has a very capable game, and more importantly, he will give you a positive experience and raise your game to higher levels if you train with him.

                      4. I have heard several negative statements, not necessarily on just this thread, about Rodney going the "life performance" "mental" route. Okay, that's cool. So why do you do martial arts? How many fights have any of you been in? How many fights can even a professional realistically hope to be in before their body is done? Most of us are middle class, how many times will we be attacked in our lives? Alright cool...so...why are you training? The main goal in any of our lives isn't to live a segmented existence, it's to live cohesively. What we learn on the mat can be and should be applied outside the gym as well, otherwise what are you paying money for? The HeartMath medical specialists have been championing mental techniques for years. Rodney's mental game is a performance method using western sports psychology that actually teaches to apply visualization and stay focused throughout sparring to achieve peak performance. In the future we are looking at applications to PTSD, because it has helped myself immensely in that regard. Basically, aside from combat efficiency, I started CM to heal. Not because of their fight team. Another thing to point out is that Rodney had a rough background and some negative experiences in the MMA world in the past. Back when he was knocking people out with livershots he was called a bully, and now that he is focused on using combat sports as a vehicle for life performance with proven techniques, he's suddenly entering Hippie territory?

                      5. Our quality control is easy to check up on. Go to the main website, and look carefully at what each trainer is allowed to teach based on their ranking. Problem solved. Nobody is even allowed to teach fighters without Rodney's okay. Nobody is allowed to teach the Combat Intelligent Soldier program unless they are prior military. Nobody can teach the Combat Intelligent Officer program unless they are prior law enforcement. Who else does that? Honestly guys, a lot of the questions I've seen on CM can be answered by a quick google search, or going straight to primary sources. That is what this website is about, correct?

                      5. Further, every trainer has their unique specialty. Mine is more the reality-based self-defense. If you wanted to fight, Adam Kayoom and Eric Kolesar would be live options. Rodney himself was the one training the EFC Africa Lightweight champ Costa Ioannou. But the fact is, the majority of people in the universe don't want to fight. They want to learn to fight, without having to fight, and have fun. Period. If you want a fight team, go somewhere else. When you want to live a healthy lifestyle with combat sports, and learn, in my humble opinion, one the most effective system for self-defense currently in existence, come check out one of our gyms. We will be here for you. Take care guys.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My real name is Sam Kressin

                        I'm a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu- Jitsu under Chris Haueter. Who was one of Rigan Machado's first American Black Belts. He was the first American Black Belt in Compete in the Mundials in Brazil and he was also the guy that gave Matt Thorton who headed up SBGi his Black Belt.

                        I'm also an assistant Coach in Catch Wrestling under Billy Robinson. Who has trained Sakuraba, Josh Barnett even Erik Paulson has gone to Billy as a student to learn from him. I've put in several hundred hours of mat time with Billy and still train with him.

                        I'm also an Advanced Trainer in the Crazy Monkey Defense Program. I had already Boxed for a number of years before I ever met Rodney King or started in CMD. I meet Rodney in 2003 at an SBG event. My boxing game was improved almost instantly as a result of his coaching and the training I got from him. So I have followed his career ever since. I was one of the first trainers he licensed beginning in 2007.

                        I can tell you if you want to improve your stand up game especially if you want to be able to develop a style of striking you can seamlessly plug into your grappling game or modify for self defense purposes the Crazy Monkey Defense Program is legit.

                        Rodney simply wants his martial arts to have more meaning and value to people beyond fighting. Which are the reasons he has put a lot of emphasis on mental game training and life coaching through the years. Todate my only interest in training martial arts is because I enjoy it and I think it's fun that's it for me. I personally use the mental game strategies Rodney's taught me all time and not just in my stand up game but it carries over into grappling as well.

                        Concerning Swift Kick Martial Arts; The owner of the school Brian takes grappling privates from me nearly every week. He's also been in the Crazy Monkey Defense Program since 2009 and he is VERY good. It's true his school is a family based martial arts center, he has a back ground in Traditional Martial Arts which many of his clients still enjoy doing but I can assure you he does in fact teach the Crazy Monkey Defense Program curriculum to all his clients and they learn some very good skills.

                        Here's a video of myself DRILLING (we are not sparring) at Swift Kick with one of Brian's students this is after I had finished an hour of sparring with a bunch of Swift Kick guys and we are just trying to work out some of the issues that came up during our sparring session.

                        Sorry I can't post videos on here because I haven't reached the 5 post limit so you will have to go to my youtube channel which is my name if you'd like to watch it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi, I haven't posted in a while, but thought I would clear some things up.
                          For the sake of full disclosure, I'm a trainer in trainer in the Crazy Monkey Defense system. My opinions of it, however are my own. Also, I'm a new trainer-in-training, so any failure to properly represent CM is my own.

                          The one thing I see in this thread, is that those most down on it haven't actually trained in the system. Those few that have, have gotten something from it, and find it a functional method. That should say something right here.

                          I would just like to point a few things out. First, if it is a genuine concern that there is potential quality control issue, I don't think that is fair or the case. Trainers certificates aren't just printed up based on time it, but based on actually meeting and, for lack of better word, being tested on what you know. If you know the material, you can be a trainer, if not, it's back to practice.

                          In my neck of the woods, I was around the periphery of BJJ in the early days, before it blew up. Most teachers who are now authentic black belts around here, learned in a similar way, because they didn't have recourse to a local teacher. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that group study, regular meetings with an authentic high level teacher, was really the way BJJ spread so fast. When a lot of gyms opened up, they were run by white or blue belts. I don't see a problem with this one bit, all those guys are now awesome on the mats, so for me it's clear that this method can work to produce competent martial artists (if it is done right). Trainer's don't just order a bunch of dvds and start teaching the whole system. They work through a part of it, meet with an higher level trainer, and if they are ready move forward and are able to teach more of the curriculum. Again, this is like the way BJJ was deseminated in its early days, where someone would learn a white belt curriculum, work on it, internalize, roll and then come back to the teacher for more. Eventually they might, say, get a blue belt, and then they could start teaching that level. If it wasn't for this method, if a would-be instructor had to go train with a BJJ professor until reaching black belt (or even brown or purple) most people would not be training today, because of how long it takes to get to that point.
                          Secondly, many of the hallmarks of bad martial arts are NOT present in Crazy Monkey. For example, I'm thinking here of the fact that the system is trained alive, sparring is a component of most peoples game, and the head coach (Rodney King) has an undeniable pedigree in functional systems like muay thai, boxing, bjj (3rd degree BB).

                          What was posted above, in the Swift Kick video, was not, and was never meant, to represent CM. The head instructor there had a TMA background, and continues to teach that because he has students interested (and I imagine he is interested in it himself). I don't really get the problem here with him adding a separate (and I understand they are kept separate) likely more functional system to what he is offering students. TMA might not be your or my cup of tea, but some people enjoy it for a variety of reasons. The fact that he is also teaching a (in my opinion and the opinion of many) functional and 'alive' system should be a positive, not a negative. Again, to use the BJJ analogy, it is like a TMA instructor bringing in BJJ curriculum to make his students more well around.

                          The last thing is the whole 'life perfomance coach". Again I don't really get the issue here. What's everyone's problem with sports psychology? Athletes (including most high level MMA fighters) work hard not just on their physical game, but their mental game as well. Rodney, from what I see, isn't setting himself up as some kind of 'guru', but is just coaching the mental game so that people can actually successfully deploy what they have learned. And yes, there is an element here of taking this off the mats and into general life. Some people (like myself) get something out of that and find it of value, some don't. For myself, I don't really understand why anyone would want to do martial arts if it didn't positively affect your life, unless that is you are a high level MMA fighter earning big money.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            Those few that have, have gotten something from it, and find it a functional method. That should say something right here.
                            It says to me that very few people out of a web site that has 1000s of people found it slightly useful. Yeah that is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            I would just like to point a few things out. First, if it is a genuine concern that there is potential quality control issue,
                            That was actually the only real concern raised in this thread as far as I can see.

                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            I don't think that is fair or the case. Trainers certificates aren't just printed up based on time it, but based on actually meeting and, for lack of better word, being tested on what you know. If you know the material, you can be a trainer, if not, it's back to practice.
                            This doesn't insure quality control.

                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            A whole mess of bullshit about BJJ
                            Comparing CMD certification style to that of BJJ doesn't mesh up well.
                            BJJ has always had one big quality control element. Its sport aspects. The fact it was used in MMA and Grappling. The competing kept BJJ Honest. You also could tell if what you where learning worked by pressure testing it.
                            CMD being taught in schools without this pressure testing is the issue. Sidekicks is a perfect example. This isn't a school that is using CMD in an alive manner. They are not using it for boxing or MT. Its a line on their resume to make their school look a bit less like shit. It chips away greatly at CMD quality control. When you have instructors who have not themselves pressure tested it and don't continue to do so.
                            Even worse you have instructors that don't have a vehicle in which to employ it with.
                            you can think of CMD as a turbo charger doesn't do you damn bit of good if you don't have an engine setup right to put it on.

                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            Secondly, many of the hallmarks of bad martial arts are NOT present in Crazy Monkey. For example, I'm thinking here of the fact that the system is trained alive, sparring is a component of most peoples game, and the head coach (Rodney King) has an undeniable pedigree in functional systems like muay thai, boxing, bjj (3rd degree BB).
                            If you wanted to learn CMD from Rodney King than great, if you are at a boxing gym teaching it great. If you are at a place that actively competes and have incorporated CMD into the syllabus and are winning competitions great.

                            This is not what we saw on the list.

                            CMD being taught at a school doesn't mean shit if that school isn't competing with it.


                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            What was posted above, in the Swift Kick video, was not, and was never meant, to represent CM.
                            No it was to show the over all quality of instruction at Swift Kick. For fuck sake if they can't even teach the shit that they are suppose to know right. You know that stuff they have years upon years learning and teaching. How the fuck are they going to teach CM? How good of quality do you think the CM instruction is going to be?
                            How usable do you think its going to be?


                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            The head instructor there had a TMA background, and continues to teach that because he has students interested (and I imagine he is interested in it himself). I don't really get the problem here with him adding a separate (and I understand they are kept separate) likely more functional system to what he is offering students. TMA might not be your or my cup of tea, but some people enjoy it for a variety of reasons. The fact that he is also teaching a (in my opinion and the opinion of many) functional and 'alive' system should be a positive, not a negative. Again, to use the BJJ analogy, it is like a TMA instructor bringing in BJJ curriculum to make his students more well around.
                            WOW what a bunch of bullshit. Lets use your BJJ analogy.
                            This happens one of 2 ways typically.
                            They bring in an actual vetted BJJ Instructor into their school. This is good. Students learn from someone that knows what the fuck they are doing.
                            or
                            The guy try's and teach BJJ himself after going to a few seminars. This is bad.

                            This is where a school like sidekicks fail. They don't have the underlying base to really teach an alive method like CMD.


                            Originally posted by Tacitus View Post
                            The last thing is the whole 'life perfomance coach". Again I don't really get the issue here. What's everyone's problem with sports psychology? Athletes (including most high level MMA fighters) work hard not just on their physical game, but their mental game as well. Rodney, from what I see, isn't setting himself up as some kind of 'guru', but is just coaching the mental game so that people can actually successfully deploy what they have learned. And yes, there is an element here of taking this off the mats and into general life. Some people (like myself) get something out of that and find it of value, some don't. For myself, I don't really understand why anyone would want to do martial arts if it didn't positively affect your life, unless that is you are a high level MMA fighter earning big money.
                            Where the fuck did all this shit come from? Did anyone mention this bullshit and I missed it?
                            No one here said shit about sports psychology. Not a single person. No one bad talked it. So what the fuck are you smoking?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am not calling bullshit or anything, but Rodney has a 3rd degree BB in BJJ and keeps teaching basic boxing? No offense intended.

                              And what is his lineage in BJJ, since he does "Monkey Jits" aswell?

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