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    Ponder with me

    Ponder with me

    Is it safe to assume that once a style leaves its makers origins that it will never truly be replicated and is then open to becoming manipulated by others? A filtering of skills and knowledge. Is a new age a hindrance or an improvement? Is this how newer styles are being born? Can anyone in this day in age claim authenticity? There are clubs that claim to be better, there are people that seemed to know better and go to such lengths by providing evidence and then there is also evidence that completely contradicts the other. Is there wisdom and honor in silence? Can there be silence to the opinions of others without being branded a coward? Is there honor in speaking so negatively about another? Does it dignify an attitude with respect and humbleness? I walked into a MMA Club nearest my home recently because I was interested in learning another style...... They were nice until I mentioned that I currently do Goju Ryu, he couldn't express enough in such disrespect towards any style of Karate. This is only my first impression, perhaps it is a common attitude amongst MMA, perhaps not. I love Kyokushin too! The differences between Goju, Shotokan and Kyokushin are subtle in the way they are performed and taught in my experience and maybe I will be told that I'm wrong and that my instructors are bad, immature and that their years of efforts are worth nothing. Who would tell me this? What kind of person would tell me this? What kind of Martial Artist would tell me this? a few have and I wasn't shocked but I was rendered unresponsive. Opinions don't have to be correct or liked but they can be respected. I know a 5th Dan (Kyokushin), he has my deepest respect and affections and of course his Karate is absolutely incredible! He admits to being the worse instructor lol (bless his heart) he isn't wrong but his brown belt wife is an excellent at instructor :)
    Some people can be such sooks and egos can be easily bruised....does it matter? I don't think so but what do you do? I would do and say nothing, why? Because their journey is theirs alone and I have no right to tell them that they are wrong and nor do I have the right to direct them or to enforce my own opinions and experiences upon them. Many questions are popping into my head as I ponder on random thoughts.....feel free to answer.
    Last edited by jnp; 9/30/2013 5:41pm, . Reason: Moved thread from article forum, removed italics and indentation

    #2
    Welcome to Bullshido.

    Just a friendly heads up. Long posts like yours are much easier to read and ponder with the inclusion of paragraph breaks.
    Shut the hell up and train.

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      #3
      Originally posted by rosenant View Post
      Ponder with me

      Is it safe to assume that once a style leaves its makers origins that it will never truly be replicated and is then open to becoming manipulated by others? A filtering of skills and knowledge. Is a new age a hindrance or an improvement? Is this how newer styles are being born? Can anyone in this day in age claim authenticity? There are clubs that claim to be better, there are people that seemed to know better and go to such lengths by providing evidence and then there is also evidence that completely contradicts the other. Is there wisdom and honor in silence? Can there be silence to the opinions of others without being branded a coward? Is there honor in speaking so negatively about another? Does it dignify an attitude with respect and humbleness? I walked into a MMA Club nearest my home recently because I was interested in learning another style...... They were nice until I mentioned that I currently do Goju Ryu, he couldn't express enough in such disrespect towards any style of Karate. This is only my first impression, perhaps it is a common attitude amongst MMA, perhaps not. I love Kyokushin too! The differences between Goju, Shotokan and Kyokushin are subtle in the way they are performed and taught in my experience and maybe I will be told that I'm wrong and that my instructors are bad, immature and that their years of efforts are worth nothing. Who would tell me this? What kind of person would tell me this? What kind of Martial Artist would tell me this? a few have and I wasn't shocked but I was rendered unresponsive. Opinions don't have to be correct or liked but they can be respected. I know a 5th Dan (Kyokushin), he has my deepest respect and affections and of course his Karate is absolutely incredible! He admits to being the worse instructor lol (bless his heart) he isn't wrong but his brown belt wife is an excellent at instructor :)
      Some people can be such sooks and egos can be easily bruised....does it matter? I don't think so but what do you do? I would do and say nothing, why? Because their journey is theirs alone and I have no right to tell them that they are wrong and nor do I have the right to direct them or to enforce my own opinions and experiences upon them. Many questions are popping into my head as I ponder on random thoughts.....feel free to answer.
      Rude people suck. Try another MMA gym. Plus, paragraphs, as jnp suggests, are very helpful.
      Falling for Judo since 1980

      "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

      "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

      "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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        #4
        Welcome to Bullshido. Everything either evolves (to some extent) or dies out.

        I thought I spelled it wrong, but as I said I'm a mechanic not an English professor.

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          #5
          I read your whole posts. That happens everywhere in all aspects of life. You move on or you deal with it. Yes, an art's practitioners insult each other just like people and many companies do.
          Last edited by It is Fake; 10/01/2013 1:34pm, .

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by rosenant View Post
            Can anyone in this day in age claim authenticity?
            In some ways your whole post at least to me boils down to this one thought.

            The answer to that question is all in how you define authentic. For me the only level of Authenticity in martial arts is their use in a martial capacity.
            One of the ways we test it it is through head to head competition. This answers those questions real quick. Is your Karate authentic? Can you use it in a fight? Can you use it against a grappler? You may have spent a life time honing it you may have spent 112 hours a week 52 weeks a year for 40 years perfecting it. But if at the end of the day it doesn't do what you think it should do is it authentic? If your studying Karate to be able to defend yourself and it doesn't work in that capacity its not authentic.
            Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
            –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by rosenant View Post
              Is it safe to assume that once a style leaves its makers origins that it will never truly be replicated and is then open to becoming manipulated by others?
              Is an art somehow better if its one person's vision, instead of a vision improved by a committe?

              Is a new age a hindrance or an improvement?
              You'd have to define "new age", "hindrance", and "improvement" in this context.

              Is this how newer styles are being born?
              Newer styles are born through a variety of different avenues, from combat to capitalism to sport.
              Can anyone in this day in age claim authenticity? There are clubs that claim to be better, there are people that seemed to know better and go to such lengths by providing evidence and then there is also evidence that completely contradicts the other.
              There are objectively true things in the martial arts though, and some clubs may accurately claim to be better given the right metrics. When evidence contradicts other evidence, someone's full of shit or someone's misinterpreting data, but that doesn't mean that everyone's full of shit and all data is misinterpreted.

              It sounds like the gist of your post is that nobody's right and nobody's wrong when it comes to martial arts. I say that's false.
              Is there wisdom and honor in silence?
              Sometimes, but not always.

              Can there be silence to the opinions of others without being branded a coward?
              Sometimes, but not always.

              Is there honor in speaking so negatively about another?
              Sometimes, when someone needs to be talked negatively of but nobody has the stones to do it.

              Does it dignify an attitude with respect and humbleness?
              Being quiet? I dunno, but I think true respect often manifests itself in speaking up, not staying silent.

              I walked into a MMA Club nearest my home recently because I was interested in learning another style...... They were nice until I mentioned that I currently do Goju Ryu, he couldn't express enough in such disrespect towards any style of Karate.
              Is it possible that you were talking up karate at the expense of the arts they teach without realizing it?
              This is only my first impression, perhaps it is a common attitude amongst MMA, perhaps not.
              MMA does not have an attitude, because it is not a person.

              I love Kyokushin too! The differences between Goju, Shotokan and Kyokushin are subtle in the way they are performed and taught in my experience
              The difference between practice sessions of generic karate and full contact karate aren't exactly subtle.

              maybe I will be told that I'm wrong and that my instructors are bad, immature and that their years of efforts are worth nothing. Who would tell me this? What kind of person would tell me this? What kind of Martial Artist would tell me this? a few have and I wasn't shocked but I was rendered unresponsive. Opinions don't have to be correct or liked but they can be respected.
              Its very possible for someone to tell you you've been had by a con man (not saying you were) while trying to be your friend. In fact, its harder to tell someone they're full of shit than it is to tell them they're right. Sure, some people are douchebags, but genuine advice often comes with a bitter taste.

              I would do and say nothing, why? Because their journey is theirs alone and I have no right to tell them that they are wrong and nor do I have the right to direct them or to enforce my own opinions and experiences upon them.
              Let's take a non-karate example of this though: let's say you learn about aviation from Da Vinci's notebooks, and you share your flying machine ideas with an aircraft mechanic. He tells you your ideas are old and outdated. Does he have the right to say so, or is he just being a jerk? Well, if you're talking about flying, he'd be doing you a favor before you jumped your mechanical bird machine off a cliff. When we consider specific metrics or outcomes, an "everybody's opinion is equally valid" approach isn't very useful.
              Last edited by Permalost; 10/01/2013 4:16pm, .

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