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judo vs wrestling in self defense

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    #31
    Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Wrestlers are more likely to be easier to choke out than judoka, for reasons obvious to anyone with randori experience.

    CTFO.
    Agreed.

    The OP was ?? about self defense.

    I believe a person with the same amount of time in both would do well, however Judo using say a Tai Atoshi to an arm bar would stop all nonsense for purposes of self defense, vs a simple take-down possibly popping up to a suplex then work to a guillotine, thus ending any threat.

    Randori done properly IMHO is one of the most efficient ways to develop Judo and real skill. IMO, and Judo is not without strikes by the way.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Phrost View Post
      ...tossing someone and then getting the hell out of there...
      *Re-reads thread title.*

      Oh, yeah--it says "Self Defence".

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        #33
        Am I reading this right? The debate is basically Eastern wrestling vs. Western wrestling?

        Isn't that klind of like arguing night stick vs. tonfa?

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          #34
          Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
          Am I reading this right? The debate is basically Eastern wrestling vs. Western wrestling?

          Isn't that klind of like arguing night stick vs. tonfa?
          Nightsticks are obviously superior. There's a reason why Police use Nightsticks instead of shitty tonfas. It's rounded edge, unlike the crap tonfa flat ones, gives it a streamlined edge and balance making it aerodynamically superior.

          But the real debate is: Submission Wrestling vs Folkstyle Wrestling.

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            #35
            Do Judo, learn to fall, show respect for all no matter what level- Work hard, lurk here, volunteer at the dojo, give back to the program, and be humble and open minded.

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              #36
              Originally posted by andrewpmma View Post
              I do know that judo and wrestling are very similar, and I havent ever tried it. But their description of it is always "its pure strength on strength the whole time" which from a judo perspective is just redundent, dping that the stronger man will always win. While with great technique and execution a small judoka can bring a much larger one down with an ogoshi.
              One of the flaws in this reasoning is that there are many, many women participating in judo. Perhaps fewer in wrestling but that was in my day.

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                #37
                Originally posted by vaquero de las nalgas View Post
                One of the flaws in this reasoning is that there are many, many women participating in judo. Perhaps fewer in wrestling but that was in my day.
                In NM quite a few females wrestling, but they MUST wrestle boys.

                In Texas they have their own class (ALL FEMALE) and two others I believe. More are coming out, and still is growing, in fact IMHO female wrestling may save Olympic Wrestling, which the determination will come out soon, this September. Females could now join HS wrestling, go the USA route, do some JUDO and end up all in MMA beating the crap out of each other. So if we could have USA Box, Judo, Wrestling, and then USA MMA!, BOOM we are DONE! Anyone know if someone is working on a USA MMA?

                Vaguero, you are so right about the reasoning flaw. I know a few 105 lb'ers that can throw 250 lb men. It aint pretty, but gives them a chance to run away...which is my preferred strategy to larger people or smaller people with lots of skill and conditioning.

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                  #38
                  For self defense, I'll take judo over wrestling. Both are good and this part of the country is rife with wrestling. I've done both.

                  Not mentioned in this thread is that, with a little variation, many judo techniques can be made more dangerous that what's allowed in competition or safe for randori in the dojo. Some techniques have been removed from the judo syllabus over the years due to injury. At least for shiai.

                  We have a kids class, 'judo for wrestlers'. Lots of young talent learning judo techniques to up their game. They're taking the time for a reason.

                  Still crying about the rule changes in judo for attacking the legs.
                  Last edited by hungryjoe; 7/28/2013 9:30pm, .

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post
                    Not mentioned in this thread is that, with a little variation, many judo techniques can be made more dangerous that what's allowed in competition or safe for randori in the dojo.
                    This is certainly true of wrestling as well, from standing or the ground.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Permalost View Post
                      This is certainly true of wrestling as well, from standing or the ground.
                      I agree, in fact the lack of clothing, ie no gi approach in matches for wrestling is an added advantage at times. I can think of a few moves that hurt real bad when done incorrectly or illegally in collegiate wrestling, which turn into submissions, or life ending maneuvers.

                      There is one move that from behind is very painful and should be banned from MMA. I am not sure what the move is called but top man is north/south - with basically head and arm with hooks in. Deadly and can snap a spine, wrestling...or Judo. Not sure the name.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Cuddles View Post
                        Also you're confusing the rules by saying Wrestling only controls for 2 seconds for the pin vs Judo's 25 seconds. While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points. (Basically your ippon. Except ours comes from the ground, yours from the clinch/stand-up)

                        This is completely wrong. I was a HORRIBLE wrestler. I scored a single point in my 2 year wrestling career, and MANY MANY MANY times I managed to avoid getting pinned, or even fallign victim to the 16 point technical pin, while having absolutely no control over anything except for the love of god don't stay on my back.

                        And I don't know where you get a 3 minute ground game from. Almost every wrestling match of watched or been involved in spends at least 50% of the time standing. Usually more.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by andrewpmma View Post
                          A very frequent argument i have with my uncle and cousin (uncle wrestled in HS, and cousin currently is.) is whether judo or wrestling would be more effective for self defense. My cousin states that judo is simply ineffective, and that none of the techniques would work in real life (yet they do in randori and tournament). And him and my uncle seem to think its this no resistance kata based martial art, and that none of it is of any use. So id like to see what the bullshido community here thinks about this topic.
                          If you're involved in grappling, you're already in a better position to defend yourself than if you're studying karate or another poor striking art...

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                            #43
                            Obviously they're both legit and I think it's more the individual than the art, and when talking about the art it's theyway you train....but there's a few things I think I'll bring up because I've been in a slightly similar situation.

                            I only wrestled for one year in high school (in Missouri). I've been dabbling in MMA (in N. Ireland) far much longer than the year I wrested but from what I've seen unless people grapple or are involved with other martial arts in Ireland & the UK they don't have much experience confronting wrestlers (generally as there are wrestling clubs, but dwarfed by a long shot by football, e.t.c) I for one would never think of pinning someone using wrestling for self defence.

                            Now I have a lot of respect for Judo and am blaming this on 2 factors, as I can't help but gaff it off now in the back of my mind after this. There's a fella in town known for being kind of a wanker with drink in him, and he's a Judo black belt. I had a few people back to my house one night, and when I mentioned I did a bit of MMA he kept insisting on 'going at it' a bit. To humour him I did and the guy put himself in a standing guillotine diving at me with his head down. You know how hurt egos kill a party, so when I tried laughing it off to go back to drinking he made a few people uncomfortable insisting on 'going at it' again, so when we did he threw a couple elbows at me, so I double legged him and dumped him on his side. He shut up after that holding his arms which swelled up, and next I saw him a couple weeks later at a Halloween party at the bar he was in a cast with a broken arm. I was just baffled how a Judo black belt couldn't breakfall when put in an unexpected situation....so I'm hoping it was because he trained at a shit gym.....

                            Another is I've rolled with another Judo black belt in the gym. Now I only know standard chokes&locks that my BJJ mates show me on the side, but I was able to primarily rely on wrestling to get me in positions where I was able to use them. To be fair I'm 6'1 and about 210 l.b.s., and that guys was stocky but his head came to my shoulders. In a self defence situation I'm going to say it depends at how good they are at what they do, and height and weight do come into factor.

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                              In a self defence situation I'm going to say it depends at how good they are at what they do, and height and weight do come into factor.
                              I'd say that sums it up pretty well and even as a total noob I would say it's the same for any MA.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                                In a self defence situation I'm going to say it depends at how good they are at what they do, and height and weight do come into factor.
                                Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. "Black belt" is a highly variable standard.

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