judo vs wrestling in self defense

[-TANK-]

Do Judo, learn to fall, show respect for all no matter what level- Work hard, lurk here, volunteer at the dojo, give back to the program, and be humble and open minded.

[Cuddles]

Am I reading this right? The debate is basically Eastern wrestling vs. Western wrestling?

Isn't that klind of like arguing night stick vs. tonfa?

Nightsticks are obviously superior. There's a reason why Police use Nightsticks instead of shitty tonfas. It's rounded edge, unlike the crap tonfa flat ones, gives it a streamlined edge and balance making it aerodynamically superior.

But the real debate is: Submission Wrestling vs Folkstyle Wrestling.

[Mr. Machette]

Am I reading this right? The debate is basically Eastern wrestling vs. Western wrestling?

Isn't that klind of like arguing night stick vs. tonfa?

[Vieux Normand]

...tossing someone and then getting the hell out of there...

*Re-reads thread title.*

Oh, yeah--it says "Self Defence".

[-TANK-]

Wrestlers are more likely to be easier to choke out than judoka, for reasons obvious to anyone with randori experience.

CTFO.

Agreed.

The OP was ?? about self defense.

I believe a person with the same amount of time in both would do well, however Judo using say a Tai Atoshi to an arm bar would stop all nonsense for purposes of self defense, vs a simple take-down possibly popping up to a suplex then work to a guillotine, thus ending any threat.

Randori done properly IMHO is one of the most efficient ways to develop Judo and real skill. IMO, and Judo is not without strikes by the way.

[RynoGreene]

I only fight people with clothes on, so Judo.

Seriously though, both are legit. Judo has more to offer, with chokes, high air-mileage throws, etc... But wrestlers get those basics of positional dominance on the ground really drilled into them which is a totally valid tactic as well.

[Phrost]

The reason why Judo is superior to Wrestling for self defense is simply that it limits your legal liability; you're much less likely to be put in jail for tossing someone and then getting the hell out of there, than you are for dumping someone and then implementing a GnP from the top.

[judojeff]

I do know that judo and wrestling are very similar, and I havent ever tried it. But their description of it is always "its pure strength on strength the whole time" which from a judo perspective is just redundent, dping that the stronger man will always win. While with great technique and execution a small judoka can bring a much larger one down with an ogoshi.

There description of it is wrong, its not strength on strength, its all about proper use of strength in the application of technique like any other art. Judo just likes to talk about this principle a lot more then wrestling does but it is still the driving force of both arts.

Judo also likes to play up the small vs big image a lot but realisticly wrestling could do the same, I wrestled at 160lbs for most of my career and was always getting taken down and worked over by our 145 pounder. This goes the other way to, wrestlers love to claim that they are the best conditioned athletes out there (or at least we did when I wrestled), when in reality that title (arguably) belongs to grapplers in general.

[andrewpmma]

I do know that judo and wrestling are very similar, and I havent ever tried it. But their description of it is always "its pure strength on strength the whole time" which from a judo perspective is just redundent, dping that the stronger man will always win. While with great technique and execution a small judoka can bring a much larger one down with an ogoshi.

[vaquero de las nalgas]

While your uncle and cousin are entitled to their opinions, they have no bloody idea what they are talking about.

[W. Rabbit]

A very frequent argument i have with my uncle and cousin (uncle wrestled in HS, and cousin currently is.) is whether judo or wrestling would be more effective for self defense. My cousin states that judo is simply ineffective, and that none of the techniques would work in real life (yet they do in randori and tournament). And him and my uncle seem to think its this no resistance kata based martial art, and that none of it is of any use. So id like to see what the bullshido community here thinks about this topic.

Wrestlers are more likely to be easier to choke out than judoka, for reasons obvious to anyone with randori experience.

CTFO.

[W. Rabbit]

I'd take wrestling over Judo because it's more control your opponent rather than throw/submit.

This is bullshit.

Pinning won't result in a lawsuit while throwing someone on concrete will.

This is naive.

Not to mention you're required to have insane conditioning. Of course Judo has great pins, but due to the rules, they don't focus on it nearly as much as wrestling.

The "rules" you mention apply to one type of Judo competition, not Judo in general, and certainly not how judoka train.

However, they're both very good and alive.

This should have been the entirety of your post.

[judojeff]

Win by pin > Win by takedown. In wrestling, you already go for the takedown.

And in judo you follow up your throws with pins.

Wrestling requires you to actively fight hands and positions for an advantage, doesn't allow you to run as easily, and forces you to have a ground game

Grip fighting is grip fighting, doesn't matter if you are in gi or not. All judoka should have a ground game. I experianced defensive griping both in judo and as a wrestler.

While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points

This is true of all grappling styles.

But putting minor details aside, we're basically arguing a 25 second ground game vs a 3 minute one with very similar techniques, which makes the difference superficial.

Yeah this is true, but im still gonna waste a chunk of my lunch break to type this up cause I have nothing better to do.

[goodlun]

I would go with Judo becuase you learn to defend against chokes and arm bars. Its a very narrow edge though, both are pretty good.

[Charles Brown]

I wrestled in high school and was able to dominate the few times that some drunk assholes had a go at me. At this point in my life, I'd like to be able to drop somebody on his head and/or restrain him. So, I'd go with Judo.