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judo vs wrestling in self defense

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    #16
    MTripp used to say on here all the time, "Judo is wrestling with a jacket". I defer to him on those matters, but I do agree with him.

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      #17
      I call it a tie. I'd give the edge to Wrestling for the initial throws since none of the wrestling throws use clothing/gi whereas some Judo throws do. I'd give the edge to Judo on the ground since wrestlers just basically roll you onto your back and lie on you whereas Judo also has strangles and joint locks.

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        #18
        Because its mostly based off pure strength rather than technique.
        I'd like to refer you to the video I posted earlier where a midget wrestler beats up a normy, and the other video I posted where a small kid beats up a jock with wrestling.

        Wrestling in summer, judo in winter
        I upvoted this, but it's actually the other way around. Wrestling season's in winter.

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          #19
          Originally posted by NeilG View Post
          OP your relatives don't know what they are talking about.
          Cuddles I'm not sure you do either. Win by pin in any form of wrestling I'm aware of is both shoulders to the mat for a brief time, at most 2 secs depending on style. When I've watched wrestling its seemed to me that the focus for the pin is just that, get those shoulders down. Judo requires you to control the opponent for 25 sec (20 under the newest rules) to win. How is this worse than wrestling?
          Win by pin > Win by takedown. In wrestling, you already go for the takedown.

          I'll parallel your statement (and I'm expecting negs from the Judo lovers here):
          When I've watched Judo it seemed to me that the focus for the win is just that, break off contact repeatedly before making a single throw. Wrestling requires you to actively fight hands and positions for an advantage, doesn't allow you to run as easily, and forces you to have a ground game. How is this worse than Judo?

          Also you're confusing the rules by saying Wrestling only controls for 2 seconds for the pin vs Judo's 25 seconds. While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points. (Basically your ippon. Except ours comes from the ground, yours from the clinch/stand-up)

          But putting minor details aside, we're basically arguing a 25 second ground game vs a 3 minute one with very similar techniques, which makes the difference superficial.

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            #20
            Is this guy making an arguement that you have to hand fight more in wrestling than in Judo? Seriously brah? Also, NielG was saying that in a wresting pin, you hold their shoulders to the ground for 3 seconds and you win. In a Judo pin, you have to hold your dominant position for a full 20 seconds.

            Aaand you can score ippon by pin, armbar or choke, not just a throw. And an ippon throw has strict guidelines, even more so with the current rule changes, so way more often than not a throw leads to groundfighting.

            Have you even done Judo, cuddles?

            Edit: I realized that came across a little Judo fanboy, so don't get me wrong here. I wrestled 4 years in highschool, and the body control and correct application of force I learned was invaluable to my athletic career and would be perfect for most kinds of combat.

            I'm just saying cuddles doesn't know much about Judo.
            Last edited by Canadaka; 7/22/2013 3:50pm, .

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              #21
              I wrestled in high school and was able to dominate the few times that some drunk assholes had a go at me. At this point in my life, I'd like to be able to drop somebody on his head and/or restrain him. So, I'd go with Judo.

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                #22
                I would go with Judo becuase you learn to defend against chokes and arm bars. Its a very narrow edge though, both are pretty good.

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                  #23
                  Win by pin > Win by takedown. In wrestling, you already go for the takedown.
                  And in judo you follow up your throws with pins.

                  Wrestling requires you to actively fight hands and positions for an advantage, doesn't allow you to run as easily, and forces you to have a ground game
                  Grip fighting is grip fighting, doesn't matter if you are in gi or not. All judoka should have a ground game. I experianced defensive griping both in judo and as a wrestler.

                  While wrestling, you have to basically be in control for the full 3 minute round or you'll get pinned instantly. Once you lose control to the opponent, it's over, regardless of score or points
                  This is true of all grappling styles.

                  But putting minor details aside, we're basically arguing a 25 second ground game vs a 3 minute one with very similar techniques, which makes the difference superficial.
                  Yeah this is true, but im still gonna waste a chunk of my lunch break to type this up cause I have nothing better to do.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Cuddles View Post
                    I'd take wrestling over Judo because it's more control your opponent rather than throw/submit.
                    This is bullshit.

                    Originally posted by Cuddles View Post
                    Pinning won't result in a lawsuit while throwing someone on concrete will.
                    This is naive.

                    Originally posted by Cuddles View Post
                    Not to mention you're required to have insane conditioning. Of course Judo has great pins, but due to the rules, they don't focus on it nearly as much as wrestling.
                    The "rules" you mention apply to one type of Judo competition, not Judo in general, and certainly not how judoka train.

                    Originally posted by Cuddles View Post
                    However, they're both very good and alive.
                    This should have been the entirety of your post.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by andrewpmma View Post
                      A very frequent argument i have with my uncle and cousin (uncle wrestled in HS, and cousin currently is.) is whether judo or wrestling would be more effective for self defense. My cousin states that judo is simply ineffective, and that none of the techniques would work in real life (yet they do in randori and tournament). And him and my uncle seem to think its this no resistance kata based martial art, and that none of it is of any use. So id like to see what the bullshido community here thinks about this topic.
                      Wrestlers are more likely to be easier to choke out than judoka, for reasons obvious to anyone with randori experience.

                      CTFO.

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                        #26
                        While your uncle and cousin are entitled to their opinions, they have no bloody idea what they are talking about.

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                          #27
                          I do know that judo and wrestling are very similar, and I havent ever tried it. But their description of it is always "its pure strength on strength the whole time" which from a judo perspective is just redundent, dping that the stronger man will always win. While with great technique and execution a small judoka can bring a much larger one down with an ogoshi.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by andrewpmma View Post
                            I do know that judo and wrestling are very similar, and I havent ever tried it. But their description of it is always "its pure strength on strength the whole time" which from a judo perspective is just redundent, dping that the stronger man will always win. While with great technique and execution a small judoka can bring a much larger one down with an ogoshi.
                            There description of it is wrong, its not strength on strength, its all about proper use of strength in the application of technique like any other art. Judo just likes to talk about this principle a lot more then wrestling does but it is still the driving force of both arts.

                            Judo also likes to play up the small vs big image a lot but realisticly wrestling could do the same, I wrestled at 160lbs for most of my career and was always getting taken down and worked over by our 145 pounder. This goes the other way to, wrestlers love to claim that they are the best conditioned athletes out there (or at least we did when I wrestled), when in reality that title (arguably) belongs to grapplers in general.

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                              #29
                              The reason why Judo is superior to Wrestling for self defense is simply that it limits your legal liability; you're much less likely to be put in jail for tossing someone and then getting the hell out of there, than you are for dumping someone and then implementing a GnP from the top.

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                                #30
                                I only fight people with clothes on, so Judo.

                                Seriously though, both are legit. Judo has more to offer, with chokes, high air-mileage throws, etc... But wrestlers get those basics of positional dominance on the ground really drilled into them which is a totally valid tactic as well.

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