judo vs wrestling in self defense

[andrewpmma]

A very frequent argument i have with my uncle and cousin (uncle wrestled in HS, and cousin currently is.) is whether judo or wrestling would be more effective for self defense. My cousin states that judo is simply ineffective, and that none of the techniques would work in real life (yet they do in randori and tournament). And him and my uncle seem to think its this no resistance kata based martial art, and that none of it is of any use. So id like to see what the bullshido community here thinks about this topic.

[BJMills]

If he thinks its a no resistance, kata based art he's probably thinking of some JJJ variant. Plenty of those and they do suck. But that's defintely not judo.

You could always find some good competition footage on youtube to show them... or just agree to disagree. Someone else's misunderstanding does not change the facts. about it.

[Cuddles]

I'd take wrestling over Judo because it's more control your opponent rather than throw/submit. Pinning won't result in a lawsuit while throwing someone on concrete will. Not to mention you're required to have insane conditioning. Of course Judo has great pins, but due to the rules, they don't focus on it nearly as much as wrestling.

However, they're both very good and alive.

[NeilG]

OP your relatives don't know what they are talking about.
Cuddles I'm not sure you do either. Win by pin in any form of wrestling I'm aware of is both shoulders to the mat for a brief time, at most 2 secs depending on style. When I've watched wrestling its seemed to me that the focus for the pin is just that, get those shoulders down. Judo requires you to control the opponent for 25 sec (20 under the newest rules) to win. How is this worse than wrestling?

[andrewpmma]

Its a very aggrivating misunderstanding of judo, neither of them know a thing about judo. And the only argument they can make is what ifs, I.e. "your put in a spladdle, headlock, or some other move. Where I can say the same with armbars or a triangle choke. But just going by the method of learning, id say judo would have a distinct advantage as its a) trained as a martial art and b) when someones coming at you its alot safer to throw them and run, rather than try a leg take and possibly get kneed in the face or have his buddies come stomp you out while youre trying to wrestle him.

[Holy Moment]

Your uncle and cousin don't know what Judo is. In any case, both skills are good to have in a PitFight:

[Canadaka]

I'd take wrestling over Judo because it's more control your opponent rather than throw/submit. Pinning won't result in a lawsuit while throwing someone on concrete will. Not to mention you're required to have insane conditioning. Of course Judo has great pins, but due to the rules, they don't focus on it nearly as much as wrestling.

It depends on how you learn I suppose, but in my experience Judo has a strong focus on pins, as it seems with the limited amount of time we have to work on the ground, it's more time efficient to turn someone onto their back and get into a controlling position than to isolate an arm or attack the neck for a submission (unless there's a particular opening). On that topic, I'm pretty sure wrestlers don't train and actively attempt to choke opponents unconscious, which is a useful skill to have for neutralizing an aggressive dickface without causing too much damage.

[jnp]

I can't copy paste the video address, but perform a search on Youtube for Anthony Igne at a wrestling tournament 1". Show your relatives that video. Igne is a talented Judoka who cleaned house at several wrestling tournaments.

Edit: Taking advantage of my staff editing abilities, here are the videos.

[Holy Moment]

On that topic, I'm pretty sure wrestlers don't train and actively attempt to choke opponents unconscious, which is a useful skill to have for neutralizing an aggressive dickface without causing too much damage.

It's pretty easy to pick up the rudimentary mechanics of a few chokes and put them into your street game, though.

[andrewpmma]

Ive offered to roll, and have mentioned coming down to see what it really is. But all hell say is im bigger than him, which to me already proves wrestling to be lesser as a form of self defense. Because its mostly based off pure strength rather than technique.

[Canadaka]

But all hell say is im bigger than him, which to me already proves wrestling to be lesser as a form of self defense. Because its mostly based off pure strength rather than technique.

Maybe try being less polarized and approach it from a logical perspective... Wrestling isn't based off pure strength, its about manipulation of balance and angles of attack just like Judo. Size and strength counts in every kind of fight, Judo has weight classes dude.

[CrackFox]

Have you tried pointing out that judo is basically the same thing as wrestling?

Ive offered to roll, and have mentioned coming down to see what it really is. But all hell say is im bigger than him, [...]

The point isn't to beat him the point is that he will see that judo is trained pretty much the same way as wrestling, and that it is not kata based as you say he thinks.

[Scrapper]

The fundamental concepts (and many techniques) in both judo and wrestling are nearly identical.

Ever wonder why?

[judojeff]

When I started judo it was pretty easy to translate many of my wrestling techniques over, and even now when we do no gi randori I shoot for singles and doubles way more then I do any pure judo throws. The two arts are very similar and as someone whos done both I can not say that one is better then the other.

Both teach very effective techniques that would definitly give an edge in a self defense situation.

As far as getting your point across to your relatives goes, the only real way would be to either show some good comp vids or get them to come to a class. Us wrestlers can be notoriously stubborn.

[TheMightyMcClaw]

To me, the principal difference between wrestling and judo re: self defense application is the presence vs absence of strangulation techniques. Given the documented effectiveness of strangulation as a means of ending confrontations, I would favor judo for that reason.