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    "Concrete Knuckles MMA in Long Island, NY"

    Ok so this new gym opens up in my area Concrete Knuckles (yes that's actually the name) so I decided to look into who was teaching.

    First of all the head striking and founder is a guy named Omar Carrion. He claims to be the first American to participate in a San Shou tournament in China which definitely seems false. Especially considering I know someone else from Suffolk County that competed in San Shou in China along time ago! He also says he came home with a medal when his opponents ran into his "concrete knuckles." Well a quick google search of "Omar Carrion kickboxing" only references an amateur fight where he was knocked out by a local kid a few years ago in the 2nd round. I couldn't find anything else to back up his claims such as fighting for the "prestigious PKF middle weight title." He claims a black belt in GoJu Ryu Karate. I'm not saying the guy has no experience but definitely questionable to say the least to be a head coach at a big gym. (square foot wise)

    Next I looked at the Brazilian jiu-jitsu. One of the slides on the front page tells the visitor to "check out our world class bjj skills." So I look at who is the head coach and he is a brown belt under Soca named Joe Thompson. So at first glance this seemed definitely legit considering Soca is an amazing instructor and very accomplished bjj competitor. So I dug a little further and things got a little bit fishy. His bio talks about him fighting professionally in shows "such as Ring of Combat." After finally finding his fighter profile I discovered his career record stands at 0-2. Unfortunately for Joe that wasn't the worst part. He was knocked out in both of his fights in 39 seconds combined!!! That's right both were first round knockout losses in 18 and 21 seconds consecutively! If you don't believe me here is the link: http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Joe-Thompson-15703 So after seeing that I looked at his list of bjj accomplishments. They looked impressive until again I dug a little deeper. On top of the list is 2nd place in the absolute division of an IBJJ world championships. After 10 minutes of not finding him in the IBJJF results for the worlds that year I realized it was the "IBJJ" as I just mentioned. I've never heard of the IBJJ and it seems awfully similar to the prestigious IBJJF! Another pretty impressive accomplishment listed was a 2nd place medal in the 2010 IBJJF World No-Gi Championships. This obviously seemed legit until I went back to the IBJJF website. He did get 2nd place all right but it was in the purple belt masters division at heavyweight. That in itself wouldn't be too bad until you consider the fact that there were 2 people in the division!!!! That's right the guy is listing coming in 2nd place out of 2 people as an accomplishment!! Link for result is here: http://www.ibjjf.org/results/2010mundialnogi.htm When you listen to his claim of "winning or medaling in over 70 tournaments" you get the jist of his path to those medals when you look at his mma record and the bjj accolades I talked about.

    So I am not straight out calling these guys frauds with no experience but I'm sure most would agree that there is some serious deception going on here with regards to the head instructors of this gym. I wouldn't have a problem with them if they didn't talk about "world class bjj" or being "the first San Shou competitor from America in China." If you want to see there inflated claims for yourself there instructor page is here : http://www.concreteknuckles.com/instructors/ So let me know what you guy's think and if you live near Long Island spread the word: If you want serious training from respected and accomplished instructors on Long Island this is not the gym to go to!!!

    #2
    Sorry for doing this, but I feel like I must. As someone who grew up in the 90's, this was the first thing that popped in my head when I read the thread title:

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    Seriously now, I browsed their website and the infos are kind of loose. Since Mr. Omar Carrion is a CMA practicioner, I'll try to give some insight on his background regarding CMA.

    There's some reference to "the world-known San shou tournament in Baoji China". Well, there really are Sanda/Sanshou tournments in Baoji - here's a vid: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjcxMzkwMDk2.html

    So, there really are Sanda tournments in Baoji ------- as well as in the rest of China... I just never heard of that place... And it's a big town - bigger than mine! But, then again, don't trust my judgement - I can be really clueless sometimes.

    Now, I believe "world-known" Sanda events would include World Wushu Championships and "King of Sanda Tournment", if that's really the name of that event - you know, the one Liu Hailong "conqueror of Muay Thai" won.

    Mr. Omar's info also features the following: "Omar was the first American to compete in the world-known San shou tournament in Baoji China and came home to the U.S. a medal winner."

    Geez, which medal? I have a friend who goes to China a lot to train Taijiquan. He told me once that foreigners often recieve medals just for taking part in the competitions. You don't really need to win anything. Guess it's some kind of chinese foreigner-ego-massage, so people might go there more often and pay up to train and compete more often... His words, not mine. Can't prove that, of course.

    So, everyone who read this, sorry for the lack of info this time... It's past midnight here already and I'm having some trouble with insomnia.

    Cheers, and welcome to Bullshido longislandmma.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Drunken Soim View Post
      Sorry for doing this, but I feel like I must. As someone who grew up in the 90's, this was the first thing that popped in my head when I read the thread title:

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]14943[/ATTACH]

      Seriously now, I browsed their website and the infos are kind of loose. Since Mr. Omar Carrion is a CMA practicioner, I'll try to give some insight on his background regarding CMA.

      There's some reference to "the world-known San shou tournament in Baoji China". Well, there really are Sanda/Sanshou tournments in Baoji - here's a vid: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjcxMzkwMDk2.html

      So, there really are Sanda tournments in Baoji ------- as well as in the rest of China... I just never heard of that place... And it's a big town - bigger than mine! But, then again, don't trust my judgement - I can be really clueless sometimes.

      Now, I believe "world-known" Sanda events would include World Wushu Championships and "King of Sanda Tournment", if that's really the name of that event - you know, the one Liu Hailong "conqueror of Muay Thai" won.

      Mr. Omar's info also features the following: "Omar was the first American to compete in the world-known San shou tournament in Baoji China and came home to the U.S. a medal winner."

      Geez, which medal? I have a friend who goes to China a lot to train Taijiquan. He told me once that foreigners often recieve medals just for taking part in the competitions. You don't really need to win anything. Guess it's some kind of chinese foreigner-ego-massage, so people might go there more often and pay up to train and compete more often... His words, not mine. Can't prove that, of course.

      So, everyone who read this, sorry for the lack of info this time... It's past midnight here already and I'm having some trouble with insomnia.

      Cheers, and welcome to Bullshido longislandmma.
      Thank you for the contribution!

      Comment


        #4
        I don't know anythong about concrete knuckles, but joe thompson is a legit bjj brown belt. I train with him at socas. He took 2nd in his division and 1st in the open weight absolute this past weekend at the ny open.I do not think he is currently teaching at concrete knuckles. To the op you should realy talk or roll with him before you slam joe on the net, and try to ruin his name

        Comment


          #5
          To the OP:

          Firstly, don't you run your own school in the area? That should probably be a disclaimer in your original post.

          Secondly, did you reach out to the school to attempt to verify any of the claims made on the website?

          bjjk's claim is easily verifiable.

          http://static.ibjjfdb.com/Campeonato...US/Results.pdf

          To knock someone for coming in second in a division of two is pretty lame. That stuff happens all the time, the competitors don't have control over how many entrants are in a particular division... Now, if he's bragging about it, that's a different story, but if he's merely listing it... then I don't see the problem.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
            To the OP:

            Firstly, don't you run your own school in the area? That should probably be a disclaimer in your original post.

            Secondly, did you reach out to the school to attempt to verify any of the claims made on the website?

            bjjk's claim is easily verifiable.

            http://static.ibjjfdb.com/Campeonato...US/Results.pdf

            To knock someone for coming in second in a division of two is pretty lame. That stuff happens all the time, the competitors don't have control over how many entrants are in a particular division... Now, if he's bragging about it, that's a different story, but if he's merely listing it... then I don't see the problem.
            To answer your questions: 1)No I do not own a school in the area. I am an upper belt from one of the bigger academies in the tri state area. And of course I would never knock someone for finishing 2 out of 2! Except it was listed as one of his top accomplishments and that is what makes it super lame!! I know things are easily verifiable that is why I dug up all the facts I stated above! Not saying any of these guys gave themselves rank or anything but anyone taking a look at what I laid out has to agree it's a little shady to say the least.

            And to the other guy above, I am in now way trying to ruin Joe Thompson's name he is a brown belt under an amazing instructor I have a world of respect for. I'm just pointing out his results in real fighting and the inflated claims his gym has made on his behalf!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by longislandmma View Post
              Ok so this new gym opens up in my area Concrete Knuckles
              Why are you claiming your gym is in the Tri-State area, when pretty clearly, your gym is "in the area" of Concrete Knuckles (i.e Long Island).

              Is this your gym?

              http://www.limixedmartialarts.com/

              Typically, when one goes through all the trouble to make an accusation of fraud on this site, they are required to do some research into the party in question.

              Hint, looking at valid competition records and calling things "fishy" does not constitute proper research.

              Since this is right in my backyard, I take exception to you throwing out claims of fraud w/o proof.

              Until you can provide some sort of evidence that their claims are BS, I would hope that a moderator sees fit to move this to YMAS.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by longislandmma View Post
                To answer your questions: 1)No I do not own a school in the area. I am an upper belt from one of the bigger academies in the tri state area. And of course I would never knock someone for finishing 2 out of 2! Except it was listed as one of his top accomplishments and that is what makes it super lame!! I know things are easily verifiable that is why I dug up all the facts I stated above! Not saying any of these guys gave themselves rank or anything but anyone taking a look at what I laid out has to agree it's a little shady to say the least.

                And to the other guy above, I am in now way trying to ruin Joe Thompson's name he is a brown belt under an amazing instructor I have a world of respect for. I'm just pointing out his results in real fighting and the inflated claims his gym has made on his behalf!!
                What is an upper belt?

                Comment


                  #9
                  How did I miss thie thread.

                  I'm trying to understand your complaint.

                  Are you saying someone shouldn't claim they are a professional fighter because they lose?
                  You do know there are numerous orgs that use dan rank for kickboxing?
                  Who cares about the KO speed and what does it have to do with teaching?

                  You know what is "lame?" A guy saying he isn't insulting someone and then promptly insulting them.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
                    Why are you claiming your gym is in the Tri-State area, when pretty clearly, your gym is "in the area" of Concrete Knuckles (i.e Long Island).

                    Is this your gym?

                    http://www.limixedmartialarts.com/

                    Typically, when one goes through all the trouble to make an accusation of fraud on this site, they are required to do some research into the party in question.

                    Hint, looking at valid competition records and calling things "fishy" does not constitute proper research.

                    Since this is right in my backyard, I take exception to you throwing out claims of fraud w/o proof.

                    Until you can provide some sort of evidence that their claims are BS, I would hope that a moderator sees fit to move this to YMAS.
                    Ok my instructor is located in the tri-state area. I now live in Long Island,NY but I travel all over for work. And why don't you read my original post before you jump down my throat. I presented clear evidence of fabrication with regards to "World Class BJJ skills and 1st American to medal in China." I was actually quite clear in stating they were not outright defrauding people, in fact I stated it multiple times throughout this thread!! I do find it offensive when people are talking about "World Class BJJ skills" when they clearly don't have the competition record to back it up. I am not doubting their instructor's abilities to teach new students the art, he is in fact a brown belt, but I would never dream of calling my skills world class and I will put my competition results against his any day of the week at similar ranks!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by longislandmma View Post
                      I presented clear evidence of fabrication with regards to "World Class BJJ skills and 1st American to medal in China."
                      No, you presented evidence that there is some hyperbole and creative advertising on his website.

                      I was actually quite clear in stating they were not outright defrauding people, in fact I stated it multiple times throughout this thread!!
                      No, what you did was play a semantic based game.

                      He claims to be the first American to participate in a San Shou tournament in China which definitely seems false.
                      things got a little bit fishy.
                      I'm not saying the guy has no experience but definitely questionable to say the least to be a head coach at a big gym.
                      I'm sure most would agree that there is some serious deception going on here with regards to the head instructors of this gym.
                      I'm just pointing out his results in real fighting and the inflated claims his gym has made on his behalf!!
                      Right, but you aren't trying to ruin the guy.

                      I do find it offensive when people are talking about "World Class BJJ skills" when they clearly don't have the competition record to back it up.
                      It's called ADVERTISING. If you find it offensive, don't ever see a movie, watch TV, look at anything on your phone and basically move into the woods.



                      I am not doubting their instructor's abilities to teach new students the art, he is in fact a brown belt, but I would never dream of calling my skills world class
                      Weird because you keep saying things about people being head coaches.
                      I'm not saying the guy has no experience but definitely questionable to say the least to be a head coach at a big gym.
                      If you want serious training from respected and accomplished instructors on Long Island this is not the gym to go to!!!
                      So, explain how this ISN'T doubting their skills.

                      I'm sure most would agree that there is some serious deception going on here with regards to the head instructors of this gym
                      It is called ADVERTISING. Do you know what that means? That means if he fought across the globe, whether you like it or not, he can say "WORLD CLASS SKILLS."


                      I will put my competition results against his any day of the week at similar ranks!!
                      Yet, none of your "accomplishments" have ANYTHING to do with these coaches and their ability to instruct.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        OP, you did not answer my question:

                        Is this your gym?

                        http://www.limixedmartialarts.com/

                        Is this you?

                        http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=108678

                        We all read your original post.

                        What you are failing to understand is that we are just as skeptical of random accusers as we are of fraudulent martial artists. Think of it as investigative quality control.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by goshinbudoJJ View Post
                          OP, you did not answer my question:

                          Is this your gym?

                          http://www.limixedmartialarts.com/

                          Is this you?

                          http://www.bullshido.net/forums/member.php?u=108678

                          We all read your original post.

                          What you are failing to understand is that we are just as skeptical of random accusers as we are of fraudulent martial artists. Think of it as investigative quality control.
                          Sorry wasn't trying to duck your specific question I thought it was obvious though that the answer was no. I live in Long island but I am not from here. In response to the statement that someone who has competed all over can claim world class status, well that is just factually incorrect. "World Class" by definition means "ranking among the foremost in the world." Most people understand world class to mean that that individual is at the very tip top of the heap in whatever they are doing. Joe Thompson and the other instructors at this gym don't even meet Joe Rogan's definition of world class. Until I read the comment above I would think they don't meet anyone's!

                          I did not come on here as a troll, nor was I trying to disrespect anyone. I came here because when a friend alerted me of this website I was genuinely alarmed. What I discovered was a group of guys who may be nice noble people for all I know, but who in my opinion were not being completely honest in their representation of themselves and their stature in the arts and sports I have loved and bled for, for 20 years. I thought this was the place to air my grievances, and that when people saw the information I dug up that they would agree with me. Apparently I was mistaken and if I offended anyone here I apologize.

                          In closing though I know times are rough and everyone wants to make a living. But when you make obviously false claims about being "world class" and present yourselves in that manner, to attract aspiring athletes and people willing to spend their hard earned money because they take those claims at face value and believe them to be true, you are taking money out of the pockets of the people that have put in the years and sometimes decades of blood, sweat, and tears to rightfully earn those accolades that many times may not have translated into financial reward. If no one bothers to speak up then I ask you without diligent research how is the common man supposed to know who is who?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't think there's a universally accepted definition of "World Class" as you claim. As IIF said, anyone's assessments of their own skills is, by nature, subjective. For advertising purposes it's not uncommon to hold yourself in high regard when trying to sell yourself.

                            I don't think what you are accusing these guys of constitutes fraud, hence it doesn't belong on this forum.

                            Is your local pizza shop committing fraud by claiming "We Have the Best Pizza In Town!"?

                            It's understood that they are making a subjective (and probably biased for the sake of advertising) assessment of their product.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by longislandmma View Post
                              Sorry wasn't trying to duck your specific question I thought it was obvious though that the answer was no. I live in Long island but I am not from here. In response to the statement that someone who has competed all over can claim world class status, well that is just factually incorrect. "World Class" by definition means "ranking among the foremost in the world." Most people understand world class to mean that that individual is at the very tip top of the heap in whatever they are doing. Joe Thompson and the other instructors at this gym don't even meet Joe Rogan's definition of world class. Until I read the comment above I would think they don't meet anyone's!

                              I did not come on here as a troll, nor was I trying to disrespect anyone. I came here because when a friend alerted me of this website I was genuinely alarmed. What I discovered was a group of guys who may be nice noble people for all I know, but who in my opinion were not being completely honest in their representation of themselves and their stature in the arts and sports I have loved and bled for, for 20 years. I thought this was the place to air my grievances, and that when people saw the information I dug up that they would agree with me. Apparently I was mistaken and if I offended anyone here I apologize.

                              In closing though I know times are rough and everyone wants to make a living. But when you make obviously false claims about being "world class" and present yourselves in that manner, to attract aspiring athletes and people willing to spend their hard earned money because they take those claims at face value and believe them to be true, you are taking money out of the pockets of the people that have put in the years and sometimes decades of blood, sweat, and tears to rightfully earn those accolades that many times may not have translated into financial reward. If no one bothers to speak up then I ask you without diligent research how is the common man supposed to know who is who?
                              Did you just parse your own words to argue a definition? Why yes you did. Oh and [email protected] "omg I can't believe....." No, world class SKILLS is what I wrote. Don't try to change it to world class, there is a difference.

                              Off to YMAS.
                              Last edited by It is Fake; 7/22/2013 1:43pm, .

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