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Ricardo Mayorga's MMA debut shows why MMA is not street fighting

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    Ricardo Mayorga's MMA debut shows why MMA is not street fighting

    For years, I've been hearing from MMA fans that if an elite boxer ever entered the octagon, it wouldn't even be a fight. The MMA fighter would take the fight to the ground, and submit the boxer instantaneously. Supposedly, it wouldn't even be a fight.

    The example that's always trotted out again and again is Toney vs. Couture.

    Well, another old and washed up boxer made his MMA debut. This time it was Ricardo Mayorga. A submission was tried, but this is what happened.



    Now in case you couldn't get the gif to load, I'll just tell you what happened.

    Wesley Tiffer tried a submission hold on Mayorga, but Mayorga kneed him in the spine, then bludgeoned him with punches.

    Now, this "win" of Mayorga's has caused an outrage in the MMA community. For good reason. Knees to the spine should be illegal.

    But what I believe this also shows is that MMA should not be considered the equivalent to street fighting. If it was, Mayorga's win wouldn't be considered so outrageous.

    You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.

    Either Mayorga is a scumbag for not following the rules, or he's just doing whatever he can to win.

    #2
    Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post
    You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.
    MMA is a sport. The majority of the members here fully acknowledge this fact.

    It is also generally considered to be the closest analogue to an unarmed streetfight that still has rules and limitations that protect the participants.

    It seems to me that you are trying to create a false dichotomy in your post.
    Shut the hell up and train.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post
      You can't have it both ways. Either MMA is a sport in which it's acknowledged that there's limitations on styles or techniques. Or it's a simulation of street fighting.
      In addition to what jnp said, I'll ask you this then, atomic. What comes closest to to better simulating a streetfight other than Vale Tudo, then? Quite frankly it won't be as easy for Mayorga next time around if his opponent is aware that he might play dirty.
      Originally posted by Newb1

      B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jnp View Post
        It seems to me that you are trying to create a false dichotomy in your post.
        No, I'm not trying to create a false dichotomy, I'm trying to say the dichotomy doesn't exist.

        Originally posted by Psycho Dad View Post
        In addition to what jnp said, I'll ask you this then, atomic. What comes closest to to better simulating a streetfight other than Vale Tudo, then?
        I don't think you can simulate a street fight because street fights are situational.

        MMA attempts to simulate a specific scenario of street fighting. Even so, the limitations of it means it can only simulate so much.


        Originally posted by Psycho Dad View Post
        Quite frankly it won't be as easy for Mayorga next time around if his opponent is aware that he might play dirty.
        If you're familiar with Mayorga, however, you'll know that he's always fought dirty. Always.

        Want to know what kind of human being you're dealing with? This kind.

        Comment


          #5
          I asked what was closest to simulating a streetfight if not MMA. You might not be able to simulate a streetfight 100%, but I'll be damned if it hasn't been the case that just about every martial art/sport hasn't tried to say at one point or another, "Learn from us, we'll show you how to handle yourself in a streetfight."

          Second, not everyone in the world is familiar with Mayorga. Maybe not even his opponent was, however, now that he's shown on his MMA debut that he will fight dirty anyone who'll be facing him in the future will be aware of his tendency to cheat.
          Originally posted by Newb1

          B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post
            MMA attempts to simulate a specific scenario of street fighting.
            Ah, no. MMA was a competition for comparing the effectiveness of different martial arts against each other. It has since become a fairly lucrative sport with a variety of fighting styles tailored to win at it.

            If this guy wants to test the edges of the rule book, well, that'll probably last up until somebody decides to demonstrate how fast a submission hold turns into a crippling injury. Nothing in the rules against turning somebody's foot backward with a heel hook either.
            "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

            Originally posted by strikistanian
            DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
            Originally posted by Devil
            Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
            Originally posted by Plasma
            At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
            Originally posted by SoulMechanic
            Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

            Comment


              #7
              I'm personally happy when boxers do well in MMA. I think a top quality boxer with a better than decent ground game and excellent take down defense would do extremely well in MMA. Junior Dos Santos comes to mind, although I don't think he was ever a top quality boxer.

              If Mayorga went into MMA with the intention of breaking the rules, he should fight Palhares.
              Shut the hell up and train.

              Comment


                #8
                Atomic - the sport of MMA has nothing to prove regarding street effectiveness. You're forgetting the roots of the sport. The techniques used today were validated when the sport's rules could be counted on one hand. No combat sport has earned the right to tout it's practical effectiveness the way MMA has.

                So a guy failed a submission and got beaten up. What's your point?

                Also, one fight serves as proof of nothing. Nobody can be consistently successful in MMA today without some grappling skill, period.
                Last edited by Devil; 5/04/2013 2:38pm, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Coincidentally, here's Mike Tyson on espn acknowledging that he would've needed to learn the ground game if he ever did MMA.

                  http://espn.go.com/blog/mma/post/_/i...es-and-charity
                  Originally posted by Newb1

                  B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Another thing - the first I heard of this fight was when I read this thread. But a quick search on the almighty interwebs reveals Wesley Tiffer entered the fight with a stellar professional record of 0-1 and was maybe a blue belt. bwahahahahahaha!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Devil View Post
                      Another thing - the first I heard of this fight was when I read this thread. But a quick search on the almighty interwebs reveals Wesley Tiffer entered the fight with a stellar professional record of 0-1 and was maybe a blue belt. bwahahahahahaha!
                      According to MMAMania, Tiffer was 5-1.

                      Still, even if Tiffer was 0-1, he has more MMA experience than Mayorga. Simply put, Tiffer has no business losing to an old and faded Mayorga.

                      Originally posted by Psycho Dad
                      Coincidentally, here's Mike Tyson on espn acknowledging that he would've needed to learn the ground game if he ever did MMA.
                      I'm not saying otherwise. What I am saying is that MMA isn't any more a real fight than any other combat sport.

                      Originally posted by Devil
                      Also, one fight serves as proof of nothing. Nobody can be consistently successful in MMA today without some grappling skill, period.
                      I'm not talking about what you have to do to succeed at MMA. I'm talking about what you need to do to succeed at a street fight.

                      Mayorga may have cheated, but in the end he won.

                      Originally posted by ermghoti
                      Ah, no. MMA was a competition for comparing the effectiveness of different martial arts against each other. It has since become a fairly lucrative sport with a variety of fighting styles tailored to win at it.
                      Except UFC pretty much markets itself as being more "real" than other combat sports. Sure, it allows for a much wider variety of techniques, but it's still no more real than anything else.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post
                        Except UFC pretty much markets itself as being more "real" than other combat sports. Sure, it allows for a much wider variety of techniques, but it's still no more real than anything else.
                        Irrespective of whether MMA does or doesn't market itself as such, it certainly is the closest thing in the mainstream combat sports world to a street fight, which does make it "more real," if we are to use such ludicrous terminology. Which is closer to a street fight, MMA or Muay Thai? MMA or freestyle wrestling? MMA or boxing? MMA has the loosest ruleset in professional fighting sports, by a fairly wide margin. That does not make it street fighting, but it does create a hierarchy of what does or doesn't have a greater applicability to a rules-free fight, even if there weren't previously.

                        When compared to martial arts that don't compete, but trumpet their superior r34lness, the comparison is even more stark.
                        "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

                        Originally posted by strikistanian
                        DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
                        Originally posted by Devil
                        Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
                        Originally posted by Plasma
                        At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
                        Originally posted by SoulMechanic
                        Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post


                          I'm not saying otherwise. What I am saying is that MMA isn't any more a real fight than any other combat sport.
                          No, what you said was:
                          Ricardo Mayorga's MMA debut shows why MMA is not street fighting
                          Which is the EXACT same Hyperbole you accuse the UFC of using right here:
                          Except UFC pretty much markets itself as being more "real" than other combat sports. Sure, it allows for a much wider variety of techniques, but it's still no more real than anything else.
                          I'm not talking about what you have to do to succeed at MMA. I'm talking about what you need to do to succeed at a street fight.
                          So if I, once again, get the articles where MMAers subdue robbers, survive knife attacks and disarm gun wielders are you going to move the goal posts again?

                          Pick your debate and stick with it.
                          Last edited by It is Fake; 5/04/2013 4:26pm, .

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                            So if I, once again, get the articles where MMAers subdue robbers, survive knife attacks and disarm gun wielders are you going to move the goal posts again?

                            Pick your debate and stick with it.
                            Cool, except combat sports athletes in general tend to do this. Amir Khan and his brother Haroon knocked out 6 robbers who were trying to steal his car.

                            Once again, how is MMA any more "real" than other combat sports?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by atomicpoet View Post
                              Once again, how is MMA any more "real" than other combat sports?
                              LOL. You're at the bottom of the hole you've been digging. If you're giving advice to somebody to learn a practical sport fighting vocabulary, what offers the best chance at a favorable outcome, MMA, boxing, BJJ, kickboxing, thumb wrestling?

                              Are they all equivalent? Because that is your claim so far.
                              "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

                              Originally posted by strikistanian
                              DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
                              Originally posted by Devil
                              Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
                              Originally posted by Plasma
                              At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
                              Originally posted by SoulMechanic
                              Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

                              Comment

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