Which MA for self defence?

[lukerawks]

K8, yes you can find much cheaper places in Judo and Boxing.

Yes you are small but skill and heart is what matters most.

Look at Bruce Lee. He was small and he could wipe out any NFL player.

Best defense is your BRAIN. Avoid toxic people and bad places and you should never have to defend yourself. Not never of course.

I would find boxing and Judo gyms . That way you can learn some stuff and not go broke.

Best defense is your brain, which is why he is posting in this thread....a non-stop assault on logic and critical thinking.

[KickPuncher]

Best defense is your brain, which is why he is posting in this thread....a non-stop assault on logic and critical thinking.

This. dgold, I think you need to stop posting for awhile, at least on this topic. I'm by no means a fixture on the site, but I've been here long enough (not long at all) to realize that of those that offer their advice, most speak from a relative place of relative expertise. It's easy enough for members in the advanced forums to call you out on your shit, but don't waste a n00b's time when they're trying to find an art to study by just flying off the handle with this BS. Don't post for the sake of posting, and maybe think more before you actually do.

Offering advice on MMA with zero experience? Heart being the most important thing in MA? Bruce Lee wiping the floor with NFL players? What the fuck are you talking about?

[jnp]

Offering advice on MMA with zero experience? Heart being the most important thing in MA? Bruce Lee wiping the floor with NFL players? What the fuck are you talking about?

This. Wasn't dgold44 the guy arguing against Judo just a week or so ago?

OP, please take everything that dgold44 types with a grain of salt. While his heart might be in the right place, based on his posts, he seems to lack the practical experience necessary to make an informed recommendation.

[erezb]

Firstly, shut up.

I spent five years training Krav and never had any of the strikes you mentioned emphasized to any extent outside of their use in particular techniques/scenarios. Yes, groin-strikes are emphasized in a general way, but that is only because it's a soft target that won't break whatever you're hitting it with and it has a big impact when you make contact.

Secondly, stay shut up.

If you're being taught properly you'll already know that there is virtually no chance you'll need to throw anything more than a three or four strike combo (and even that is probably not going to happen.) Two and three strike combinations are basically going to be whatever you're most comfortable throwing, and what has worked for you in sparring. And once you've hit them enough you run away, or find a weapon, or take their weapon.

Wיhat happens when you just fight someone outside the pub, no weapons, and he refused to fall down after three punches?
Some fights are not to the death, no use of weapons. but still pretty serious.
This black and white scenario of "all fights should be avoidable, and if not, fight to the death" is bullshit.

[erezb]

Look at it this way: I'm a small guy, personally. No matter how good my form is, I might not be able to punch a much bigger guy in the face and knock him out. Some people can handle a tremendous blow to the head and remain conscious and/or keep fighting. On the other hand, no one can remain conscious when you cut off the blood or oxygen flow to their brain.

Now, don't get me wrong, striking arts are also amazing in what they do, so long as you spar a lot and don't rely on 'theories' when it comes to self-defense. Look out for a lot of reality-based theorized training setups, especially if you notice that a lot of the salty 'experts' have big ol' bellies... That should be a big red flag. At the end of the day, no matter what you pick, you should know it works because you get to see it working in real life, not in some sort of LARP scenario.

You think that BJJ is better for a small guy than boxing or MT? If you can't knock him out with the first strike, you can break his nose with the sixth, or kick his thigh raw.

I think that it is just as hard and skill demanding to be able to choke out a bigger stronger guy, than it is to out box him.

[Eudemic]

Wיhat happens when you just fight someone outside the pub, no weapons, and he refused to fall down after three punches?
Some fights are not to the death, no use of weapons. but still pretty serious.
This black and white scenario of "all fights should be avoidable, and if not, fight to the death" is bullshit.

I take it you don't understand the idea of combinations in striking? Or the idea of striking in a self-defense situation? And why the hell are you fighting outside a pub; you're supposed to be inside wallowing in your own melancholy at not learning anything from the striking-oriented arts you claim to study.

And who suggested anything was black & white? In my post you quoted I suggested at least three distinct courses of action to take to either remove one's self from a dangerous situation or to make it less threatening (none of which involved killing anything.) Please reread my post and stop putting words in my mouth.

[ermghoti]

My school has good instructors, which is why I have continued and plan to through next year.

Then why are all your posts stupid?

Here are some Krav videos from a similar school to mine. Hope you liked them or maybe you think they are total BS. I dont know. I never tested them and never want too.

Worthless unrealistic compliant demos. Might as well be wushu.

These techniques can be tested easily and safely. Magic marker for a knife. Airsoft or paintball gun and goggles. Against anyone at all, not experts, legitimately trying to tag you, you will fail, your instructor will fail, elite legitimate H2H practitioners will usually fail too. It's a recipe for disaster, to be attempted only in the gravest extreme.

Like I said. I am not tough guy and I do not want to try them out. But good to know if I had too.

No. Not good, each of those will inevitably result in the death of the defender.

Look at Bruce Lee. He was small and he could wipe out any NFL player.

No, he could not. Point to a video of him sparring alive. (Hint: there aren't any, save an alleged chi sau rooftop duel). He said himself he'd be beaten to death summarily by Ali, DUE TO THEIR SIZE DIFFERENCE.

Yes you can defend yourself against a gun or knife. Some very simple techniques. This will work if you have the "balls to do them".

Fucking no. Again.

If someone could pull up that video of what a real knife attack looks like, that'd be great. I think goodlun showed it to me last time.

I don't think this is the video you're referring to, but it may be even more illustrative of the reality of weapon v. unarmed.

[Eudemic]

I don't think this is the video you're referring to, but it may be even more illustrative of the reality of weapon v. unarmed.

Thank you!

That video is an excellent illustration of why I am so unsure of my Krav knife defenses/disarms.

[lukerawks]

Knife/gun disarms are irresponsible in most cases. They look flashy, they look like they work, and the can get someone who really buys into the MA seriously hurt and/or kill should they be unlucky enough to be attacked with a weapon.

There's a reason weapons were invented, and it wasn't because they were so ineffective against people who were used to fighting.

[theAsthmatic]

Everyone has given great advice.

I would just like to add that If the goal is to avoid fights completely, then you don't need to worry about taking any fighting art. I recommend the sport of body building. Not a lot of 'typical madmen' pick fights with guys that look like Marius Pudzianowski or Sergei Barduk. I am not saying that it's actually going to help you in a fight, but it will certainly help to avoid a fight. That, and don't be a dick in bars so people don't want to punch you in the mouth.

I am obviously not sure what your background is, but whatever you do pick though, cross train in something requiring athleticism. Build physical strength (not necessarily size) and endurance. Chances are if you have a lot of strength and can do say 20 pull ups and about 100 pushups without straining yourself you won't say things like I am only 125 lbs and won't be able to knock out a bigger opponent and it will only help you with whatever style you decide to adopt later on.

[lukerawks]

I am obviously not sure what your background is, but whatever you do pick though, cross train in something requiring athleticism. Build physical strength (not necessarily size) and endurance. Chances are if you have a lot of strength and can do say 20 pull ups and about 100 pushups without straining yourself you won't say things like I am only 125 lbs and won't be able to knock out a bigger opponent and it will only help you with whatever style you decide to adopt later on.

There's a big difference in what you can condition your body/frame to do and what is physically possible to do. Let's look at this logically, are you saying that through push-ups and pull-ups a 125 lb guy is going to beef up enough to knock out a 200 lb guy? How much easier would it be for that 125 lb guy to develop a solid technique and have the ability to choke a 200 lb guy unconscious? Put any UFC flyweight in the ring with any UFC heavyweight and I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't win by knockout, and those guys do nothing but train/condition themselves for fighting.

Not trying to be a bjj nutrider, just trying to be logical. I think it's wise to train in a little bit of everything, standing, clinch and ground.

[theAsthmatic]

Let's look at this logically, are you saying that through push-ups and pull-ups a 125 lb guy is going to beef up enough to knock out a 200 lb guy?

Yes.

If you need examples of lighter fighters knocking out heavier fighters in striking, look at the Kyokushin world open before they had weight categories. Hardly ever did the biggest guy win. Look at fights like Kaoklai vs Mighty Mo in kickboxing etc. I am not saying the OP needs to be Kaoklai Kaennorsing I am just saying it's not the end all of training. Size and raw power is just one aspect of fighting. Strength and technique can and does overcome that a lot of the time.

This is coming from a 6'4", 260 lbs guy who has had his share of getting knocked around by much smaller sparring opponents consistently (in sparring, I don't get into a lot of street fights). You may say that this is because I suck, but I prefer the other explanation, which is weight is hardly the deciding factor in who wins a fight. Strength and technique is.

By the way, I wasn't speaking specifically about striking or grappling. I just suggested he increase his overall physical attributes. That can only help. Whatever his choice.

[Gezere]

Yes.

If you need examples of lighter fighters knocking out heavier fighters in striking, look at the Kyokushin world open before they had weight categories. Hardly ever did the biggest guy win. Look at fights like Kaoklai vs Mighty Mo in kickboxing etc. I am not saying the OP needs to be Kaoklai Kaennorsing I am just saying it's not the end all of training. Size and raw power is just one aspect of fighting. Strength and technique can and does overcome that a lot of the time.

Kinda of misleading. Yes the biggest guy was always the winner but the smaller guy wasn't much smaller. It takes an extraordinary little guy to beat a OK big guy as a general rule. (And I don't think Mighty Mo was a good kickboxer to begin with)

This is coming from a 6'4", 260 lbs guy who has had his share of getting knocked around by much smaller sparring opponents consistently (in sparring, I don't get into a lot of street fights). You may say that this is because I suck, but I prefer the other explanation, which is weight is hardly the deciding factor in who wins a fight. Strength and technique is.

As a fellow biggum 6' 250lbs I disagree. I don't get knocked around by smaller guys. I tend to knock them around. I am bigger and stronger but I am also techinical! That really is the most deciding factor. Hence the saying, "Technique before Physique!"
I do agree with you on combining athelesism with whatever he chooses but he needs to ensure to focus on his technical skills.

[Permalost]

How much easier would it be for that 125 lb guy to develop a solid technique and have the ability to choke a 200 lb guy unconscious?

Would it be easier for a small guy to take down a big guy using pure grappling, or using grappling + striking?

[theAsthmatic]

Sorry if this is off topic. I am a little curious why you don't think Might Mo was a good kickboxer?

Mighty Mo was the K1 Grand Prix champion in 2004 and 2007. In 2004 he was at the very top of his game (when he lost to Kaoklai). The loss takes nothing away from him also, it was a good fight. I am not sure what it takes to be a good kickboxer, and I guess it's a subjective standard, but winning the K1 counts in my book. Winning the K1 multiple times definitely counts. He may not have the greatest record, but you can search for his knockout highlight reel if you have any doubt that he hits like an angry semi. I am quite sure there are not a lot of people in this world that can stand and exchange blows with him safely - regardless of their weight.