Fighting may have shaped evolution of human hand

[DCS]

Someone is looking for a IG Nobel, methinks.

Fighting may have shaped the evolution of the human hand, according to a new study by a US team.

The University of Utah researchers used instruments to measure the forces and acceleration when martial artists hit a punch bag.

They found that the structure of the fist provides support that increases the ability of the knuckles to transmit "punching" force.

Details have been published in the Journal of Experimental Biology.

More info:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20790294
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/2/i.1

Full paper: Protective buttressing of the human fist and the evolution of hominin hands

[DarkPhoenix]

A friend of mine sent me this article yesterday. Interesting theory.

[DCS]

Here is a disagreement:

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic....lved-to-fight/

[Vieux Normand]

To what degree has the ability to fistfight (compared to, say, the ability to develop and wield weapons) played any role in evolutionary and/or history-making events among humans? What's the actual evidence? Right.

[Permalost]

To what degree has the ability to fistfight (compared to, say, the ability to develop and wield weapons) played any role in evolutionary and/or history-making events among humans? What's the actual evidence? Right.

From the NatGeo article:

The problem is that, as Carrier and Morgan write, the goal of their study was “to test the hypothesis that the proportions of the human hand make it an effective weapon”. They did that. But the hypothesis that fist-fights shaped the evolution of our hand is different. Going from one to the other is like showing that computers are good at surfing the Web, and suggesting that this is what they were invented to do. It involves speculative just-so stories—stories that may well be correct, but that need evidence.

[DCS]

To what degree has the ability to fistfight (compared to, say, the ability to develop and wield weapons) played any role in evolutionary and/or history-making events among humans? What's the actual evidence? Right.

My hypothesis is fist fighting played a role in ancient intragroup violence: Social order without using "the deadly" for a seriously injured or maimed member of the hunter-gathering group is not very useful.

Evidence? I have none.

[Vieux Normand]

My hypothesis is fist fighting played a role in ancient intragroup violence: Social order without using "the deadly" for a seriously injured or maimed member of the hunter-gathering group is not very useful.

Evidence? I have none.

Well, since we're going the entirely-hypothetical route: if what happens among other group-mammalian species (wolves, chimps, and so on) is any indication, then actual fighting didn't occur anywhere near as often as posturing and the threat of such. Actual fights were rare. If threats were more common, a species specializing in wielding hand-held weapons would use them for that.

[Permalost]

The shin is an even better bone for striking with but I doubt it evolved that way so Thai people could kick each other.

[crappler]

No. The human hand (and especially the opposable thumb), was designed to grip objects. Not punch stuff. Didn't you guys ever see 2001? Geez!!!! I got a PHD in anthropology from Hollywoodz!!!

[crappler]

Well, since we're going the entirely-hypothetical route: if what happens among other group-mammalian species (wolves, chimps, and so on) is any indication, then actual fighting didn't occur anywhere near as often as posturing and the threat of such. Actual fights were rare. If threats were more common, a species specializing in wielding hand-held weapons would use them for that.

I am so fucking awesome at puffing up and getting quiet and scary (and slinking away in fear) I have never really been in a fight.

[Nefron]

No. The human hand (and especially the opposable thumb), was designed to grip objects. Not punch stuff.

Its because of the ancient fact that BJJ > All.

[Resonance10]

So did chimps pioneer the leopard fist?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...20MGfO2qsVblvg

I thought it was because we were evolved from knuckle walkers..

[DCS]

Well, since we're going the entirely-hypothetical route: if what happens among other group-mammalian species (wolves, chimps, and so on) is any indication, then actual fighting didn't occur anywhere near as often as posturing and the threat of such. Actual fights were rare. If threats were more common, a species specializing in wielding hand-held weapons would use them for that.

Let's look at chimps and violence: Comparative rates of violence in chimpanzees and humans.

[Vieux Normand]

Let's look at chimps and violence: Comparative rates of violence in chimpanzees and humans.

Both are species which use posturing and threats to maintain social standing within a group and territory vis-a-vis other groups. This happens far more often than actual fights. Actual fights are relatively rare because of the threat of injury to survival. The threat in chimps is grabbing and teeth. That of humans is weapons.

Wolves also use teeth and size as their threat, and it usually is enough to prevent potentially-damaging fights. They do not go sub-maximal (such as threatening to whack each other with their tails) because that would provide no deterrent.

Humans, to deter attack, have not gone sub-maximal either. The MAD era involved threat of mutual annihilation with nukes, not fists. When our deterrents have historically failed, war was not fought with fists, but with weapons. That is our specialty.

Much of our metabolism is devoted to maintaining the source of our weapon-superiority: our brains. Less, therefore, is available to the maintenance of muscular strength or to the growing of teeth, claws and size. A bear weighing less than you do can rip you to shreds, even if you work out all day and the bear has nothing but pacing a cage a few times for exercise. Human fists, however powerful for a human, would do nothing substantial to the bear. We just aren't built for unarmed combat the way other terrestrial species of similar mass are. As much as the Brock-wannabees in gyms the world over may lament this, we are the nerds of the animal kingdom.

This is why unarmed sport combat among humans is potentially such an entertaining contest: we must use extraordinary levels of skill and training to make up for our physiological shortcomings relative to other animals our size. That said, we are still, in discussing unarmed combat among humans, talking about activities that are mostly either paid entertainment or hobbies. I am not saying there is anything at all wrong with that: it provides considerable exercise and economic benefit, among other things. It is not, however, something that would affect the course of our history as a species. That is the province of armed combat.

[erezb]

If it was so, than untrained people/kids/women etc. would instinctively know how to punch correctly (they use hammer fists at best). Also i thought we established one should be extra careful punching a skull and such so not to brake one's hand, which could be fatal in ancient times.
On a side note, Dos Santos could totally fuck up a chimp in a MMA match. ((the chimp can't bite)