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    #31
    Originally posted by itwasntme View Post
    Sometimes agreeing to disagree is for the best :)

    I hope you don't take this as argumentative, I'm just trying to help you understand the point that was being made before anyone starts getting a burning sensation in their buttocks.
    Not at all. Thanks for the comments.

    I hesitate to ask though, what the reference to buttock burning sensation means in this context :-)

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      #32
      Re: What should I have done? What would you have done?

      I was referring to the infamous "butthurt".

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Bezmond View Post
        "And then nothing happened and the crazy guy walked off" was surely the best way for this situation to end.
        Absolutely.

        But while the whole "walk away", "talk your way out", etc strategy makes perfect sense, I'm just a little surprised to hear them offered so often almost as the bottom line in self defense. The question screaming out at such suggestions is, yes but what if one *cannot* walk away, or the aggressor *won't* or can't listen?

        Perhaps you guys were merely interpreting my original email as someone needing some reassurance that not smashing a poorly man in the head isn't cowardly. At no point was that anywhere in my head -- prefrontal-cortex-driven musings about keys and bottles notwithstanding. And to the extent people have been offering that reassurance, I really do appreciate the sentiment.

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          #34
          Originally posted by itwasntme View Post
          I was referring to the infamous "butthurt".
          Ah. Never heard of it. Just googled it. Now I see. :-)

          By many taxonomies, both ancient and modern, there are four aspects to humans, two of which are: body, and mind. On the first, I freely acknowledge I am underdeveloped and in need of a lot of work. On the second, however, I am a Navy Seal. In other words, in matters of physical confrontation, I may well get my ass handed to me. In matters of intellectual debate -- and this shouldn't detract from my appreciation of your helpful comments -- be assured my buttocks will be fine ;-)

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            #35
            Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post

            Well you probably won't be surprised to hear I think you are factually incorrect on both points. As I say, probably best we simply move on.
            Can't be factually incorrect, as it is the written word and you are playing "what if" scenarios. So, this entire thread, minus the beginning, is based on opinions.

            but what if one *cannot* walk away, or the aggressor *won't* or can't listen?
            You didn't really ask that, you asked specifically about your situation. The thread would be going in a slightly different direction if you posed the above question.

            Perhaps you guys were merely interpreting my original email as someone needing some reassurance that not smashing a poorly man in the head isn't cowardly..
            No, but it is an interesting look into what you see about yourself. I'm pretty sure, since I can only talk for myself, none of us saw that as cowardly or implied that in any fashion. There are MULTIPLE threads asking similar questions with similar responses of "Martial Arts is not always the correct answer."
            Unfortunately, you came to the wrong website if you were expecting "OMG beat him down," or " MA will show you the way." Most of us understand that walking away and diffusing the situation is almost always the best option.

            As to you new scenario, if you can't walk away then you have to fight. At that point, some training would be good, a weapon would be better and a cell phone and situational awareness trump them all IMO.
            Last edited by It is Fake; 11/03/2012 10:09am, .

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              #36
              Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
              Interesting rebuttal.

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                #37
                Thanks for that. Incidentally, one of the best descriptions I've ever seen for the mechanics of unconscious prejudice is Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink". It's not a rigorous treatment, but the lack of precision is more than compensated for by Gladwell's ability to articulate things clearly. He gives some excellent examples of the phenomenon in action. In fact it's one of the reasons I've come to believe that, no matter how careful I am with prejudice, I'm probably still not careful enough.

                I apologize for the neg rep. I like the old system where you couldn't hit the wrong damn button.
                Ah. I thought you just felt I was talking crap (which would be fine). Thanks for neg'ing the neg. :-)

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
                  Thanks for that. Incidentally, one of the best descriptions I've ever seen for the mechanics of unconscious prejudice is Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink".
                  I will take a look at this as well.

                  In fact it's one of the reasons I've come to believe that, no matter how careful I am with prejudice, I'm probably still not careful enough.
                  When it comes to race, gender, religion and sexuality you can never be careful enough. I gave up trying long ago. If I say something uncouth, let me know and I'll decide if I agree or not.

                  Ah. I thought you just felt I was talking crap (which would be fine). Thanks for neg'ing the neg. :-)
                  Good discussion is good discussion whether we agree or not. Neg rep, for me, is mostly for trolling. If more people sourced their opinion, at the least, we would understand differing opinions better.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    A little late jumping in here, so I will try and be a little more explicit about why avoiding a fight in these sorts of incidents is a really good idea even had you had years of the absolute best martial arts training.
                    This guy right here is why

                    Easily concealable easy to deploy without the other guy seeing it and when used as the equivalent of a sucker punch is quite devastating.
                    Here watch this video
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo
                    also few martial arts help you deal with this sort of attack especially if its launched as any form of a surprise
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ah_0gia4A0
                    So to sum up you can never know if someone has a knife and if they do things are not going to look to good for you.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                      ... avoiding a fight in these sorts of incidents is a really good idea [because of knife danger]
                      ... So to sum up you can never know if someone has a knife and if they do things are not going to look to good for you.
                      Scary stuff. And it goes back to something Fake said earlier in the thread:
                      If you want to take MA to get fit, do it. A side benefit is self defense.. IMO, it should never be a primary reason except in special circumstances.
                      Now I originally focused on his specific use of "MA" -- that is, I assumed he was saying that where martial *arts* are concerned, self defense is only a side effect. I guess reasonable minds could differ on that, but I personally agree with that point.

                      But would you say that in fact it goes further than that? Is *any* unarmed self defense training -- art or otherwise -- tantamount to useless for normal (i.e. non-violently-minded) people?

                      Is all such training -- no matter who the teacher -- wasted on Joe Niceguy?

                      Are all such trainers -- no matter how good they are themselves -- selling snake oil?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: What should I have done? What would you have done?

                        Something I've been wondering for a while: aside from the fact that it could gain you a good position to stab, what is the purpose of slash attacks with a knife?

                        Seems like the only way to get a sure kill slash attack would be if you severed an artery which doesn't sound likely to me in most scenarios.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
                          Is *any* unarmed self defense training -- art or otherwise -- tantamount to useless for normal (i.e. non-violently-minded) people?
                          No, not at all as you eluded to earlier that you simply may not have the choice.


                          Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
                          Is all such training -- no matter who the teacher -- wasted on Joe Niceguy?
                          There are many benefits to training. In the context of self defense you are certainly going to be better off than the guy with no training in a situation that goes south. That is if you are training in an appropriate manner.
                          The point being though is even with good training your still going to want to avoid a fight if you can.

                          Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
                          Are all such trainers -- no matter how good they are themselves -- selling snake oil?
                          If your being trained in an alive manner and working from a position of disadvantage such as you would find yourself after a surprise attack and they are honest about the dangers then your alright. That being said you do have to pay attention to what they are trying to sell you. If they act like your going to be invincible or capable of dealing with multiple armed opponents then you know your in a bad place.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by auchtermuchtie View Post
                            But the bottom line is, at no point in my adult life have I been in serious physical danger. However since moving to Texas from Britain -- and maybe this is more an indication of the madness of Texans :-)
                            ...
                            A Few Good Men. And I'd like to be able to do a bit more of that for myself, before I feel the need to scream "Helup helup it's the wooluf" like a little girl :-)
                            I don't see where you are located in Texas, but a friend suggested you (or someone in the thread) were around Austin.

                            Consider coming and training with us 9am Sat mornings.

                            If you are not a LEO, in the military, or protecting your family then you have no obligation to stand and protect the wall.

                            You have received a lot of good advice on this thread.

                            The main thing is: You went home safe.

                            So by definition, you did just fine.


                            On the other hand, you COULD have been in serious danger and it would worry me if you were truly frozen -- in general this is not a good way to deal with a POTENTIAL threat.

                            I absolutely would not suggest you do anything violent, or provacative, unless and until you perceived imminent danger.

                            But I would strongly suggest you can build in some default "pre-fight" behaviors and speech patterns to INCREASE YOUR ODDS of:

                            1. Not getting attacked
                            2. Being in a relatively good position if you do still get attacked
                            3. Going home safe it it happens.

                            We train "alive" as some have suggested, fighting and working against a fully committed attack is the fun and sexy part -- but we also train pre-fight scenarios and methods because that will just plain STOP 80%+ of all criminal attacks.

                            The combatives part is for that remaining 15-20% where nothing you can do will deter the criminal from launching the attack.

                            http://www.Meetup.Com/AustinCombatives

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I am a lowly noob, but you have done right by me. To be honest, it's better not to fight. And if you don't want to, you could always take up track, and maybe some parkour.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                To be honest, you did the best thing possible; you didn't react.
                                If the guy was just a bully then the best thing to do is not show fear...or any other reaction. If the guy was mentally ill the best thing to do is exactly nothing that will escalate the situation.
                                Defending yourself against a bigger fella is one thing, defending yourself against a mentally ill bigger fella can sometimes be a tall order for ANYONE.

                                Though ultimately, until you added the part about; what if he was doing it to my wife, I was completely on board.
                                But if anyone did anything ever to my wife, they would regret it, mentally ill or whatever. mainly due to the fact that she can handle herself just fine, and the fact that I would chew their face off first chance I got.
                                But that only applies to the wife.
                                Any other circumstance and I would of just completely ignored the guy, same as you. It doesn't matter what panic and fear is going on inside, they don't know that.
                                Good luck finding some training, some self improvement, whatever it may be can never be misplaced.

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