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TKD and why it does/doesn't work

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    TKD and why it does/doesn't work

    I had a conversation about karate and TKD with some folks last night, and I was curious what people on here thought... While I realize the ridiculousness of stuff like point karate or Olympic TKD, what is it about those martial arts, and others like it, that people find so silly and ineffectual? There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.

    I ask because I have sparred with a number of really good karate and TKD guys, and they are difficult opponents... They hit hard, accurate, defend well, and have lots of live experience. In fact, the hardest I have ever been kicked in the head was by a TKD guy. Of course, some of the stuff they do has its weaknesses (ie completely sideways stance, hands low, snapping kicks with the foot, etc.), but I could say the same thing about some aspects of BJJ and judo, as well.

    I want specifics. Be as vitriolic as you want.

    #2
    The why it doesn't work can only be debated if we know what venue it is used on.
    Tkd is more a sport than martial arts so it only works against itself.

    Karate...depends on whats style

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      #3
      Originally posted by blackmonk View Post
      Be as vitriolic as you want.
      Sure. Search function and don't post this tripe in the basic technique forum. This is so YMAS it is silly.

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        #4
        Originally posted by blackmonk View Post
        There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.
        The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.

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          #5
          Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
          Sure. Search function and don't post this tripe in the basic technique forum. This is so YMAS it is silly.
          LOL. I am sooo bad at the internet, guys. How embarrassing!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Like Water View Post
            The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.
            That's fair. The guys I know just spar much, much more, and under full-contact rules.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Like Water View Post
              The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.
              My karate school does something I think is kind of interesting, at the lower ranks you do the light/no contact sparring and as you get up in ranks the contact becomes more and more and by the time you reach purple (6th belt) or brown (7th belt) you are going full contact. And as we are a self defense oriented school I think that's a good way to go. As for why karate and taekwondo don't work I think all comes down to, like someone said before, the way its applied. I find a lot of people that study karate, tend to over estimate their own abilities which results in their down fall, I see this a lot among lower ranks in our school. And for TKD practitioners if they are a competition school have the horrible habit of keeping their hands low which results in them getting punched in the face much easier. But these are just my observations and there are always exceptions.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by blackmonk View Post
                I had a conversation about karate and TKD with some folks last night, and I was curious what people on here thought... While I realize the ridiculousness of stuff like point karate or Olympic TKD, what is it about those martial arts, and others like it, that people find so silly and ineffectual? There has to be some benefit to it, especially since they spar and compete quite a bit.

                I ask because I have sparred with a number of really good karate and TKD guys, and they are difficult opponents... They hit hard, accurate, defend well, and have lots of live experience. In fact, the hardest I have ever been kicked in the head was by a TKD guy. Of course, some of the stuff they do has its weaknesses (ie completely sideways stance, hands low, snapping kicks with the foot, etc.), but I could say the same thing about some aspects of BJJ and judo, as well.

                I want specifics. Be as vitriolic as you want.
                When I was training in Isshinryu karate as a teenager, one of my class mates also trained in TKD. He was older and shorter than me yet he had no problem dropping an axe kick on my shoulder or kicking me in the head.

                Nowadays when someone cocks their hips like that, I know enough to get out of the way. Is TKD better than anything else? Better than a total noob, yes. Better than someone who knows what to expect, not so much. I'd put my bets on a boxer.

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                  #9
                  I believe that as something becomes more and more popular, it becomes more and more difficult to find people who truly do it well. I know of a TKD school that my Sifu finds very reputable in my area. Then again, there are probably a good 20 or so TKD schools in my area.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Semantics. It isn't how it is applied it is how it is taught.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                      Semantics. It isn't how it is applied it is how it is taught.
                      That's what I was looking to say just couldn't process it thank you Fake.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I practice shotokan, waits for the mouths to start foaming lol, but really I think it is up to the karateka to make their training work, find a good buddy and work on alive trainng, personally I train with a goju guy from the jundokan. During class we spend alot of time on kihon and kumite and I feel I'm pretty lucky as we do go semi to full contact and most of of like to go full on. We don't wear any protectors and I have left with some bruises, I will say this sadly because we are small club and we have a few white belts we don't get alot of time on jiyyu kumite.
                        Last edited by Tameshiwhaty?; 7/15/2012 12:23am, .

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Like Water View Post
                          The thing is, this is usually not true. And even the tkd, karate schools that do spar, usually do so in low-contact, point-sparring rule sets. I don't think anyone's arguing that many of these MAs we spend a lot of time dogging on could be reasonably effective if they had more "live" application of their moves in full contact sparring (see, Kyokushin) however, I have yet to personally find a tkd or karate gym where this is how they train.
                          Actually... I'll see if the one my girlfriend attended still exists. I talked a bunch of shit about TKD and she kept her mouth shut for a long time. Then she asked what I was talking about and we went to observe a TKD dojo locally that does... well... what most TKD dojos do: patty cake. She was amazed. Apparently the TKD school she went to back in the day sparred and sparred hard. It was not uncommon for them to leave with black eyes and the like because they'd failed to block a strike in sparring. If it still exists, I'll have to stop in and see how it is. If it's anything like what she was talking about it'd be nice to hold up as a shining example of how it should be done.

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                            #14
                            I own a gym where there is a TKD program, and they spar really hard. They've also developed their own league that uses the old full-contact karate rules, so they work all the basics: keep your hands up, chin down, etc. Same stuff I do in my boxing classes, but they have all these beautiful kicks in their arsenal, as well.

                            My main complaint about the style is that they don't allow kicks to the legs, which I think is a huge shortcoming... They don't even have an effective way of dealing with lower-body kicks at all.
                            Last edited by blackmonk; 7/15/2012 7:05am, . Reason: grammar

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                              #15
                              At my old karate club, we were told to practice 'light' sparring, but when they paired guys against each other it was ON (because we're guys and we like to hit things Grrr.) And then they'd stop us and say "I said light contact." My old Shotokan club still got bloody noses and winded lungs (by accident) despite their safety measures. Accidents are inevitable. Karate is definitely a good MA for sparring if its done with good technique.
                              Last edited by KornTheElephant; 7/15/2012 4:43pm, .

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