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    #31
    Originally posted by Buddhist_Budoka View Post
    Again, thanks for the info.

    The rules would be in a real life situation where the victor is the one who incapacitates the opponent. The levels of each fighter would be the same, or as similar as possible.

    I am stuck at my current gym/school for now, since i signed a 3 month contract for the summer, but that's okay. In the future, however, I might just take you/this community up on that for finding a good judo school.
    I'm not even going there. Don't take this wrong, but why exactly are you in martial arts? This sounds like some sort of challenge scenario type of fight.

    The crazy thing is, any serious practioner of Judo or BJJ (not ignoring other arts, just these are under discussion) with a reasonable level of experience simply isn't going to get into that sort of scenario, outside of some sort of competition with defined rules and limitations. BJJ and Judo have in general the effect after a certain amount of time, of lowering one's need to get into fights, prove one's self, etc combatively. Plus we know how much damage can be done by two skilled opponents to each other.

    As an example, years ago, when I was in college, one of my school collegues (went to high school with him as well) was a super athletic native american guy. Letterman in football, later played college football for a while as well). He eventually got into taekwondo, earned black belt(s), competed, etc. This was not one of your wimpy, can't punch, never sparred kind of TKDist. I'll call him George.

    Anyway, we were on a geology field trip to Arkansas, camping out. One of his green belt students was along. This guy was OK, kind of goofy though. He kept telling me that he wanted to fight me, see how TKD was against Judo, blah blah blah. I basically just ignored him. Then he wanted myself and George to fight. Anyway, George eventually told him to knock it off. Which he did.

    George and I were laughing over the whole thing (I was a judo black belt at the time) over a beer later. Neither of us had any desire to challenge the other, because we had already proved to ourselves what we we could do, and it had nothing to do with being able to "incapacitate" any particular person of any particular martial art.

    If you will train more and eventually get skilled at BJJ or Judo (or others),you may find out what all this means.

    You might even learn to accept others for what they are-fellow human beings who are suffering just like you one way or another.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

    Comment


      #32
      As Iif has stated, douchebags tend to be prevalent across the board in martial arts. There are, of course, different typed of knuckleheads attracted to the various MAs out there.

      The TUF noobs with questionable social graces (in your opinion) that you are describing are not uncommon to BJJ. However, as previously mentioned, they either quit or become decent guys 99% of the time.

      I've trained at the same place for 11 years. I'm pretty tight with quite a few of the guys that have been there for more than 4 years, and really tight with all the guys that have been there for 9 years or more.

      On the other hand, because the attrition rate is so high, I don't even bother to learn the new/beginner guys names until they've lasted at least a year. Relatively few douchebags last past this mark.
      Shut the hell up and train.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by BKR View Post
        You might even learn to accept others for what they are-fellow human beings who are suffering just like you one way or another.
        How did this thread result in such a freaking awesome post? Yet another reason I love being a Bullshido member.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by BKR View Post
          I'm not even going there. Don't take this wrong, but why exactly are you in martial arts? This sounds like some sort of challenge scenario type of fight.

          The crazy thing is, any serious practioner of Judo or BJJ (not ignoring other arts, just these are under discussion) with a reasonable level of experience simply isn't going to get into that sort of scenario, outside of some sort of competition with defined rules and limitations. BJJ and Judo have in general the effect after a certain amount of time, of lowering one's need to get into fights, prove one's self, etc combatively. Plus we know how much damage can be done by two skilled opponents to each other.

          As an example, years ago, when I was in college, one of my school collegues (went to high school with him as well) was a super athletic native american guy. Letterman in football, later played college football for a while as well). He eventually got into taekwondo, earned black belt(s), competed, etc. This was not one of your wimpy, can't punch, never sparred kind of TKDist. I'll call him George.

          Anyway, we were on a geology field trip to Arkansas, camping out. One of his green belt students was along. This guy was OK, kind of goofy though. He kept telling me that he wanted to fight me, see how TKD was against Judo, blah blah blah. I basically just ignored him. Then he wanted myself and George to fight. Anyway, George eventually told him to knock it off. Which he did.

          George and I were laughing over the whole thing (I was a judo black belt at the time) over a beer later. Neither of us had any desire to challenge the other, because we had already proved to ourselves what we we could do, and it had nothing to do with being able to "incapacitate" any particular person of any particular martial art.

          If you will train more and eventually get skilled at BJJ or Judo (or others),you may find out what all this means.

          You might even learn to accept others for what they are-fellow human beings who are suffering just like you one way or another.
          While I understand your point on a philosophical level, and agree, that doesn't mean that there isn't validity to considering the effectiveness of a martial art in a self defense situation; while I don't train for defense, I still want my art to have some value in this regard. So I guess I would rephrase my earlier question, and strip out the scenario and ask simply: is judo a viable method of self defense?

          Comment


            #35
            Yes, it is.
            GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
            Originally posted by Devil
            I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
            Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
            I <3 Battlefields...

            Comment


              #36
              It seems pretty simple from what I've learned. The specific fancy techniques you learn arent that important for "self defense." You're looking for something where you approximate fighting (e.g. an art where you knock people around and get knocked around) so that you have some experience with it if it ever happens. From what I know of Judo, most Judo fits the bill.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by jnp View Post
                As Iif has stated, douchebags tend to be prevalent across the board in martial arts. There are, of course, different typed of knuckleheads attracted to the various MAs out there.

                The TUF noobs with questionable social graces (in your opinion) that you are describing are not uncommon to BJJ. However, as previously mentioned, they either quit or become decent guys 99% of the time.

                I've trained at the same place for 11 years. I'm pretty tight with quite a few of the guys that have been there for more than 4 years, and really tight with all the guys that have been there for 9 years or more.

                On the other hand, because the attrition rate is so high, I don't even bother to learn the new/beginner guys names until they've lasted at least a year. Relatively few douchebags last past this mark.
                Good answer to my question and thanks for the post.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by lordbd View Post
                  It seems pretty simple from what I've learned. The specific fancy techniques you learn arent that important for "self defense." You're looking for something where you approximate fighting (e.g. an art where you knock people around and get knocked around) so that you have some experience with it if it ever happens. From what I know of Judo, most Judo fits the bill.
                  cool, good to know.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Judo is an excellent system for fighting. I don't really think "self defence" is a thing.

                    You're more likely to find a TMA-ish atmosphere in Judo, if that's what you're looking for. Be aware that California, especially Southern California, is more or less the top region in the world for BJJ right now, while Judo there is (in global terms) fairly mediocre.

                    That said, try all the places near you and train whichever one you're likeliest to actually stick at.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Buddhist_Budoka View Post
                      While I understand your point on a philosophical level, and agree, that doesn't mean that there isn't validity to considering the effectiveness of a martial art in a self defense situation; while I don't train for defense, I still want my art to have some value in this regard. So I guess I would rephrase my earlier question, and strip out the scenario and ask simply: is judo a viable method of self defense?
                      I would say Judo is ultimately better for self defense because it traditionally incorporates two martial ranges, standing (throwing, specifically) and the ground (ne-waza). Most BJJ places cover the standing/throwing range marginally at best.

                      Hitting a person with the planet tends to be pretty effective in a self defense situation. Throws can be modified to be more damaging as well. For instance, throwing someone so they land on their head is always a bad idea unless the situation is very dire. This is due to the high rate of injury that tends to occur when a person lands on their own head with their body weight behind it.

                      Judo, San Shou, SOMBO and wrestling tend to be the best martial arts to pursue with regards to the throwing arts. This assumes that these arts are practiced in the traditionally "alive" manner and either produce competitive athletes in their respective sport, or are run by someone who was a successful competitor or coach at one time.
                      Shut the hell up and train.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Where in CA are you?
                        Also every school is different, I tend to find really relaxed gyms that focus on sport and not on any of the other malarkey.
                        The real question is why does all this matter? You havn't learned how to make small talk if not I suggest you learn how to. Look I am 32 married and have a kid most of the people I train with are 20 something JuiJitsu bums(could be because I mostly do morning classes as I work at night) I have next to nothing in common with them but be damned its not hard at all to talk to them for the 10-15 mins before and after class.
                        Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                        –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
                          California, especially Southern California, is more or less the top region in the world for BJJ right now, while Judo there is (in global terms) fairly mediocre.
                          you know, southern california does have some pretty good judo http://www.sjsujudo.org/history.html to name only one place. yes it's not the top location for judo on the planet, but you can get excellent judo instruction in southern california.
                          "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
                          "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
                          "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
                          "Seriously, who gives a fuck what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Buddhist_Budoka View Post
                            While I understand your point on a philosophical level, and agree, that doesn't mean that there isn't validity to considering the effectiveness of a martial art in a self defense situation; while I don't train for defense, I still want my art to have some value in this regard. So I guess I would rephrase my earlier question, and strip out the scenario and ask simply: is judo a viable method of self defense?
                            Yes, Judo is a viable method of self defense. If you get good at Judo. By good, I mean a few years at least of serious practice.

                            Any sort goal requires specific training to be most effective. Judo is the same ..
                            Falling for Judo since 1980

                            "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                            "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                            "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                            Comment


                              #44
                              You sound very suburban bouergoise. Or like Dana Carvey as the Church Lady.


                              "The only important elements in any society
                              are the artistic and the criminal,
                              because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
                              can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

                              RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

                              THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

                              It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Buddhist_Budoka View Post
                                my complaint was on the social end; that I don't like having to deal with the sketchy types who seem attracted to MMA: It Is Fake is more or less right, I am intimidated by the rough and seedy types that I have to train with - but I am not intimidated on the mat - but by the social aspects, like having to avoid these guys attempts at befriending me. Basically, I am saying that I don't like the "scene" or the "crowd" in MMA and am wondering if it is a constant in all gyms.

                                I think people are getting confused because they are so focused on attacking me and picking appart my statements. Every time I re-clarify I am really restating the same thing.
                                It sounds like your training partners are trying to be friendly with you, which is very frequently an indication that they're decent guys. Why do you assume that they're seedy, or unpleasant, or that their mild MMA fanboyism makes them unworthy of your conversation? Get rid of those assumptions. Maybe I'm not using the term correctly, but you should consider emptying your cup. You might even learn something in the process.

                                With regards to your original question, I never had any problems with violent, unpleasant dudes at either of the places where I trained in the jits. Though my spotty attendance record makes for a bad sample size, most of the people I rolled with were friendly and wanted to help me learn, even while they were kicking my ass.

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