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Hedgeangelion 2.0: We Are [Not] In A Parking Lot (w/ video)

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    About two weeks ago a friend, his wife and I were driving on this side of the Potomac and saw a couple in a very heated argument. All three of us train in Krav and BJJ. We commented on what we believe we would do if we saw a woman being beaten in the street. Just wanted to say... good job!
    Last edited by ConcreteShoeMan; 6/27/2012 2:56pm, . Reason: stupid grammar

    Comment


      Originally posted by lukerawks View Post
      Basically, my point was this: using a video like this to advertise your gym isn't cool, period. I don't know how my gym would feel if I posted a video like this and said "come train at x in x city!" after it was all over.

      Sure, people know about martial arts schools through tv and whatnot, but posting a video like this implies that this kind of behavior is specifically endorsed by the school, which most instructors would disagree with.
      I have a pretty strong feeling that I would get a free lifetime membership if I where caught on tape very successfully defending someone else and then giving credit to my school. Just saying
      Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
      –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

      Comment


        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        Please explain why it isn't cool. This is a video of a guy who has trained standing up for someone else. He not only used restraint but he was able to easily take care of himself TWICE. How is that a bad thing? Given that this site was made because of all the BS in MA I can't see a bad reason for someone using their MA skill in a REAL fight especially for someone else's benefit.
        I"m not going to pretend to know his instructor or his school, I'm just saying his school's now attached to his video here, for better or for worse. As far as it being someone else's benefit, there's nothing on the video that proves this was for someone else's benefit, other than the comments at the afterparty.

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        What instructors would be upset with their student standing up for someone who was being bullied?
        Instructors might be upset with a student positioning their school as a vigilante training ground, yes.

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        And I say AGAIN you don't know thugs. They are stronger in number than individually. I would be really surprised if one took up the idea to find Hedge to prove his street cred.
        Like I said I am originally from Miami and we do have more than our fair of thugs literally from different countries and I've heard many talk a good game and very few try to back it up on their own.
        I know thugs about as well as any dorky white kid in Atlanta knows thugs. They're all around, and you're dead on in your description. My whole thing was just looping back to the whole argument that attaching this video to your school might not fly well with your school, that's all.

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        What if Godzilla and Rodan got in to a fight in the middle of all this!!!!!!
        Seriously did you think this through? If there isn't a crowd he would be better off, right? If he had to break someone's arm or whatever then so be it if it was him defending himself or someone else. Yeah it sucks to get stuck with a knife, been there done that. Martial Arts isn't about avoidable situations it about those you either need to enter in to or can't avoid getting into.
        Who knows he needed to enter into this? We don't know what happened before the cameras went on, so all we can go on is stories and assumption.

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        You can ask them. A better thought is that in a time where most people are spectators its good that at least there is one person willing to stand up.
        They're upstanding enough to get him to stop a choke hold, but for some reason are just spectators when this guy is apparently (before the camera was rolling) beating his girl?

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        Given that police generally show up after the fact it good that some people aren't pussies. My question to you is are you such a pussy that you would simply be a spectator or call the police and sit back hoping they get there before things go to far?
        "I got between you before you did!" is Hedge's response when the guy says "I didn't hit no girl, man." (around 3:40 in the vid)
        I wouldn't stand by and watch someone beat on a woman, no, but does that mean to 'not be a pussy' I need to fight the guy, not involve the cops, and leave him to do whatever he wanted to do after I'm done filming the video for youtube?

        Originally posted by Gezere View Post
        Possible, some women do return to their abusers even after being saved but others do not. We can only hope.
        I hope so as well, for her sake.

        My big point is this: you can call me a pussy if you'd like, and I'll totally understand why you feel the way you feel. Doesn't mean I won't like you or not respect you, we'll just agree to disagree.

        I"m just a little skeptical as to the intentions of this video. The evidence points to ego over doing the right thing...even though the original intentions might have been legit.

        Comment


          Originally posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
          Hedge you're famous. I see random Bjj dudes on Facebook posting about you. Also apparently you're a "mild mannered" young man lolololol that one got me.
          He is a social media phenomenon.

          http://cavemancircus.com/2012/06/25/...-street-fight/

          Comment


            I've seen Kung Fu work against untrained random clubbers too. And quicker. What does this prove ? That BJJ is a really fucking slow way of dealing with an untrained chump that's what.
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            Comment


              Originally posted by Cullion View Post
              I've seen Kung Fu work against untrained random clubbers too. And quicker. What does this prove ? That BJJ is a really fucking slow way of dealing with an untrained chump that's what.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cullion View Post
                I've seen Kung Fu work against untrained random clubbers too. And quicker. What does this prove ? That BJJ is a really fucking slow way of dealing with an untrained chump that's what.
                Or maybe that it can equip you to completely control your opponent, leaving him with no options? Don't be an idiot. Your statement stands on the "superior style" argument, which is long dead.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by simonifrius View Post
                  Or maybe that it can equip you to completely control ONE opponent, leaving him with no options? Don't be an idiot. Your statement stands on the "superior style" argument, which is long dead.
                  Fixed.

                  Comment


                    If you are on this site complaining about how Hedge is a bully, I recommend that you consider posting on MAP instead. They appreciate beautiful snowflakes over there more than we do.



                    Originally posted by Cullion View Post
                    I've seen Kung Fu work against untrained random clubbers too. And quicker. What does this prove ? That BJJ is a really fucking slow way of dealing with an untrained chump that's what.
                    How's the ground training going Cullion?

                    You know, I have been in mount on a hostile person before and briefly considered dropping some hard elbows to quickly end the encounter. I decided not to in the interest of avoiding escalation.

                    Let me ask you this, how do you think the people around him would have reacted if Hedged choked the guy out, or elbowed him into oblivion?
                    Shut the hell up and train.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RWaggs View Post
                      You would disagree that spending an inordinate amount of time on your knees with your back exposed to a crowd doesn't pose a higher risk of getting stabbed then being on your feet, with the increased ability to look around, move around, or run at any given notice? Okay. I'm not going to argue about that.
                      In this situation, hedge took the fight to where he had the greatest advantage. He gave the guy a chance to give up and walk away. He kept the crowd on his side, and these people were actually keeping the situation under control, whilst also orchestrating the punishment of hedge's opponent.

                      He could have chosen to stand there trading punches. They'd probably clinch up at some point. It can take a few minutes to beat someone standing. He might even get knocked out himself.

                      He might get stabbed while standing around after the fight. He might get stabbed while casually walking away from it. He might get stabbed during. He might get stabbed after he knocks him out and then runs away. I'm really not convinced that your chances of getting stabbed are different, standing or on the ground. You still won't see the knife.

                      If I'm going to kill someone with a knife, I'll wait for the right moment. It doesn't have to be while they're fighting. But really, it's not that hard to close in on someone while they're fighting another person. I've seen and done it many times, in my case it was usually to restrain them and break up a fight. If I was a cunt and wanted to kill someone, I could do it with a knife instead.

                      Having said all that, I'm open to change my mind. But all I see is people making an assumption that if you're standing, you're less likely to get stabbed. If that's true, then the difference isn't great enough that I can notice it.

                      Regardless, in this case, no one actually got hurt, someone got humiliated after hurting a girl and a video was posted on the internet.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jnp View Post
                        You know, I have been in mount on a hostile person before and briefly considered dropping some hard elbows to quickly end the encounter. I decided not to in the interest of avoiding escalation.

                        Let me ask you this, how do you think the people around him would have reacted if Hedged choked the guy out, or elbowed him into oblivion?
                        Exactly. He could have ended it almost immediately, but he gave him a chance to calm down. He could have killed the man, but he crowd wasn't going to let that happen.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by lukerawks View Post
                          I"m not going to pretend to know his instructor or his school, I'm just saying his school's now attached to his video here, for better or for worse. As far as it being someone else's benefit, there's nothing on the video that proves this was for someone else's benefit, other than the comments at the afterparty.
                          Despite our not seeing eye to eye on many things I have little reason to doubt Hedge's word.

                          Instructors might be upset with a student positioning their school as a vigilante training ground, yes.
                          I hardly think that would be an issue. I don't see many Bruce Waynes coming to Hedges school and if they did, so what? Given what I've seen of some RLSH they probably need to be in that school.

                          I know thugs about as well as any dorky white kid in Atlanta knows thugs. They're all around, and you're dead on in your description. My whole thing was just looping back to the whole argument that attaching this video to your school might not fly well with your school, that's all.
                          You reasoning for the video being attached to the school being a bad thing is pretty thin.

                          Who knows he needed to enter into this? We don't know what happened before the cameras went on, so all we can go on is stories and assumption.
                          True but as I stated before knowing Hedge for years I don't have much reason to doubt what he said is what happened. If I did I would be one of the loudest calling BS.

                          I wouldn't stand by and watch someone beat on a woman, no, but does that mean to 'not be a pussy' I need to fight the guy, not involve the cops, and leave him to do whatever he wanted to do after I'm done filming the video for youtube?
                          You're in ATL, a place I know very well also, what do you plan on doing until the police get there? What if it escalates?
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                          Comment


                            Originally posted by jnp View Post
                            Let me ask you this, how do you think the people around him would have reacted if Hedged choked the guy out, or elbowed him into oblivion?
                            if hedge chocked him out (and probably did the chicken)? betcha 100 grand the spectators will freak out.

                            if elbowed him? the guys will hoot, cheer, drink beer and probably ROTFLOL.:Hehehe:

                            where do I base that on? here:

                            (transcript)
                            [at 0:43 hedge was suckerpunched]
                            background(aka BG): OH! OH!
                            hedge: relax!
                            [perp starts flailing]
                            BG: hit back! hit back!
                            [hedge obliges]
                            BG: oh shit! oh shit! (rinse and repeat)
                            [at about 1:27 hedge has stopped GnP and is controlling perp's right arm, something's bleeding]
                            BG: he's bitching you, my nigger.
                            BG: ... white boy.
                            BG: your shit leakin' boy.
                            BG: get up right quick man...
                            [hedge speaks, I don't quite get what he's saying]
                            BG: keep punishing his motherfuckin' ass
                            BG: he trying to get up.
                            hedge: RELAX! OK?!
                            hedge: I'm ---(don't get the word) to let you the fuck go if you will fuck relax!
                            Perp: who fought a female?
                            BG: you called it wrong nigger. you're wrong. you got your ass punished. (2x)
                            BG: I've seen the whole thing. you ---(didn't get this).(2x)
                            BG: white boy, white boy. keep whoopin' him. keep whoopin' him.
                            hey, hey if you can't whoop him let him up and we whoop him.
                            hedge: yeah, wait. can anyone take this?
                            BG:(speaking among themselves) ..no you take him out...
                            [perp starts up again]
                            hedge: fucking relax, OK? I'm hoping eh--?!
                            BG: (speaking among themselves) ... jukebox DC shit...
                            [hedge taps on perp's head]
                            hedge: tap, tap, tap.
                            BG: oh shit! oh shit! (rinse and repeat) (as if THAT was a hard beatdown)
                            hedge: I could be punching him.
                            [hedge then starts to choke him out]


                            it may have started as rescue the damsel, but it turned into a social spanking. the guys around want to see him spanked, but probably didn't want to do it themselves. hedge then became the instrument for society's disciplinary measures!

                            looking at the entirety of the video, it ain't self-defense. without the backstory and eyewitness accounts, it can't be justified use of force by a good samaritan. it's a fight, plain and simple. hedge didn't leave the vicinity after the first tapout and so did the perp, paving the way for round two. aside from the "peer pressure" at 0:50, hedge exhibited good self control.

                            it's a mob lynching waiting to happen. better hedge with a measure of control than a mob out for blood.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by lukerawks View Post
                              They're upstanding enough to get him to stop a choke hold, but for some reason are just spectators when this guy is apparently (before the camera was rolling) beating his girl?
                              not anyone can be snackman. and not anyone would want to take a hit for a stranger. if the perp is restrained and you can get your hits in without repercussions, then high chance they would do so. it's a mob mentality thing.


                              Originally posted by lukerawks View Post
                              "I got between you before you did!" is Hedge's response when the guy says "I didn't hit no girl, man." (around 3:40 in the vid)
                              I wouldn't stand by and watch someone beat on a woman, no, but does that mean to 'not be a pussy' I need to fight the guy, not involve the cops, and leave him to do whatever he wanted to do after I'm done filming the video for youtube?
                              not "fight" just restrain/neutralize long enough for the target(the woman) to get to safety. it just so happens that after hedge restrains him (mount) the bystanders now want an "educational beatdown". and who's more qualified at "education" on the scene than the martial arts instructor hedge! :happy:

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Gezere View Post
                                Despite our not seeing eye to eye on many things I have little reason to doubt Hedge's word.


                                I hardly think that would be an issue. I don't see many Bruce Waynes coming to Hedges school and if they did, so what? Given what I've seen of some RLSH they probably need to be in that school.


                                You reasoning for the video being attached to the school being a bad thing is pretty thin.


                                True but as I stated before knowing Hedge for years I don't have much reason to doubt what he said is what happened. If I did I would be one of the loudest calling BS.


                                You're in ATL, a place I know very well also, what do you plan on doing until the police get there? What if it escalates?
                                I think we can agree to disagree on a few things, and you're absolutely right about Hedge. I don't know him, and from what I've seen on here, he has a lot of respect from the folks on these forums.

                                You are correct in the amount of restraint he showed in this video. I'm just saying from the outside looking in, I was a little skeptical of the back story....in the absence of evidence and all that. It just seemed to be more fueled by vanity than doing the right thing.

                                As far as what I would do until the police arrive here in ATL, I would fight for my life and not let someone tap out if I had them in an RNC, but then again, I'm just a white belt so that's assuming I end up in that position. I definitely wouldn't prolong the fight, and from what I see here, I doubt the cops were involved at all.

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