What I hate about Bujinkan

[OldShintaro]

Have you actually ever sat down and read and densho or makimono? The don't really hold a lot of information in the first place. Most of the time they are not illustrated, and those that are they are mostly done poorly unless the author had some artistic skill. They are usually a catalog of techniques and IF they are described they are usually something like "grab hand and throw to the ground." They are not very useful unless you are already versed in the school. I own several and I know anyone who read them would not get a good idea of that to do. I mention this because you brought up "scrolls" several times.

No mate, I have never had a translation. But wouldn't the experienced people add commentary for others? That way it get taught at a known state?

Do you have it in Classical Japanese? Or just the translation?
I've seen Wolfgangs publications.

[Colin]

The real deadly, apparently:

[BJMills]

First all this from someone who has never done Bujinkan?

Not once did I use those small minded words "Real Deadly", they are your words.
If you can read Classical Japanese, I am quite happy to talk about scrolls. So you have another opinion that you know nothing about.

Bujinkan is not meant to make anything better. Again your words. I used "Add-on". Maybe your having trouble with that?
I have no regrets.

But what I don't understand is the person with the biggest opinion has never, by their own admission, done Bujinkan.

My opinion on the booj is roughly equivelent to my opinion on- say- drunken style kung fu. Which I also have not ever wasted my time with. In fact, feel free to substitute 'drunken style kung fu' anywhere I have written booj, maybe you can look at the argument less emotionally.

Here's the thing, there's tons and tons and tons of evidence of its bullshit. Tons. You still haven't responded to my comments of the Takamatsu videos. I mean, that's about a old school and authentic as you can get booj-wise. But I'm asking you again, does that look remotely effective?

So, point is, every single thing put out by the booj, looks like bullshit. Former booj members who have moved on to alive arts say it is bullshit.

If you're going to post on this website with the idea that there's good stuff in the booj- despite mountains of evidence to the contrary- mountains- then you're going to need to provide something other than your theory about the old magic ninja scrolls.

If you want to have a ninja bitch/love fest go to MAP or Martial Talk. You will find plenty of like minded people who still drink the koolaid. Here you're going to have to back up your bullshit with something other than more bullshit.

And just to be clear the 'r3al d3adly,' which was brough up by another poster by the way, is a reference to a type of argument we see all the time on this website. Often in reference to Wing Chun but ninjas aren't above it. The gist of it is, 'X martial art may seem really crappy, but if you trained at Y time under Z instructor then you got the real martial art and it's deadly skills.

This is the old tired argument you started with, you just haven't been around long enough to know how old, how tired and how stupid it is.

[Gezere]

No mate, I have never had a translation. But wouldn't the experienced people add commentary for others? That way it get taught at a known state?

They are used mainly as a reference and catalog. Outside of the school they generally wouldn't do anyone much good. You had to be experienced to really get something out of it. So basically you would get to a high enough level then be able to either read or make a copy of the schools literature.

Do you have it in Classical Japanese? Or just the translation?
I've seen Wolfgangs publications.

I have them in both Classical and contemporary Japanese.

[OldShintaro]

OMG BJMills let it go. Everyone here has heard you multiple times. Yes, you don't like Bujinkan. You think its shit ra...ra...ra..ra

[OldShintaro]

Colin,
Now I know you are behind the rest of the country. Still using Hogan??

[OldShintaro]

Gezere,

I wonder, do you know what that high level was? Shihan?

When I think about the commentary, whilst it is *maybe* a good idea, but would people even take the time to read it?

You know what could be done is to have someone create videos on the way in which is *should* interpreted. People might watch them.

[shinbushi]

Gezere is correct. As someone who has copies ofa scroll or two. They are just passed down training notes. very vague.

[Colin]

Colin,
Now I know you are behind the rest of the country. Still using Hogan??

How else am I going to convey 80's Australia?

[OldShintaro]

How else am I going to convey 80's Australia?

LOL Nice!

[Gezere]

Gezere,

I wonder, do you know what that high level was? Shihan?

In the old menkyo ranking system it was generally menkyo kaiden when you got a hold of the literature, sometimes a little earlier.

When I think about the commentary, whilst it is *maybe* a good idea, but would people even take the time to read it?

You know what could be done is to have someone create videos on the way in which is *should* interpreted. People might watch them.

Again they were more a reference than training manual.
If you have a copy it is because you already know the way to preform the techniques. They weren't for sharing with the masses.
With that said there have been those who have done that, Taneumra springs to mind, however with the different branches there is debate on which way it "should" be interepted.

[OldShintaro]

Have people seen the Tags, funny!

[Jim_Jude]

How else am I going to convey 80's Australia?

put another genin on the barbie! :Hehehe:

[Permalost]

[Jujutsuka desu]

It's always funny how the guy who never trained in Japan is telling the people who have how it really is.

You are playing on semantics here.

You trained Tomiki Aikido in Japan?
You trained Judo in Japan?
You trained Takenouchi Ryu? etc etc?

Because neither of them are going to teach you about the other.
I am referencing a friend who has trained in Japan.
And I will be training in Japan next year myself.

Run n tell that! :)