What I hate about Bujinkan

[OldShintaro]

Then my apologies.

We usually put on head gear or have just a mouth guard, depends on who you are training with. Sometime with the gloves that had padded knuckles and sometimes not. Again depends on who you are fighting with. Typically, Black belt to Black Belt, just the mouth guard.
Rules, try not to do too much damage so that they can go to work the next day. Aaahh another concept that seems to have disappeared CONTROL. Something that comes from training. You can hit someone or kick them and hurt them enough so that they feel it but not damage them. And it NOT a BS love tap.

So sometimes one-on-one. Sometimes 4 or 5 on one. And that is NOT any type of special group attack BS either. It is so that the attacks come in at a rapid pace. The person is pushed to tiredness, so they realise, amongst other things, that there is NO such thing a perfect technique.
What used to be interesting is that some people were ex other MA. So their idea of 80 - 90 % was different to everyone else's. But stiff shit.

Sparring at least 3 times per week.

Sorry dude I have to go to bed, gotta get up in 6 hours. If you post again I'll answer tomorrow.

[Colin]

Am I the only one who is getting the "we have the real" vibe out of this argument?

[Cake of Doom]

Am I the only one who is getting the "we have the real" vibe out of this argument?

I'm getting a "We had the deadly, now you kids don't know whats good for ya" vibe.

I've noticed this in a few Booj/Ex Booj threads. Things just aren't like the old days.

[Colin]

Judging from Hatsumi's old vids - I find it hard to believe that it was ever effective.

[BJMills]

Am I the only one who is getting the "we have the real" vibe out of this argument?

That's what I've been getting from his first post.

I can't go back any further than Takamatsu video to prove my point and he seems to have ignored it.

And OldShintaro, I know it's bullshit because I have eyes and a brain. That's all. Any one with any critical thinking can see the obvious. No need to directly experience it.

[Tom .C]

That's what I've been getting from his first post.

I can't go back any further than Takamatsu video to prove my point and he seems to have ignored it.

And OldShintaro, I know it's bullshit because I have eyes and a brain. That's all. Any one with any critical thinking can see the obvious. No need to directly experience it.

The secret scrolls will reveal that it's all been prank from an ancient Japanese game show version of punked. Everyone will agree that Hatsumi really overdid it and is no Ashton Kutcher.

[Prince Vlad]

Haven't been around in a while, first thread that grabbed my attention was about the good old Buj. I trained and lived in Japan for 5 years with one of the shihan and visited Hatsumi's dojo a couple of times. Just like Shinbushi my advice is to give up on the Bujinkan and train in anything that has alive training. There is no sparring in Japan. Ever. I tried sparring from ichimonji no kamae and jumonji kumite when I came home and I got the shit kicked out of me. I quickly learned that BUj techniques are more like taichi than anything else, interesting for exploring body mechanics and manipulating weight distribution but only in a very compliant environment. Everything falls apart when your opponent resists. The ultimate humiliation and realisation that I had wasted my time and believed in a load of nonsense was when I took my first BJJ class as a Buj blackbelt (shodan). I got absolutely destroyed by white belts with no more than 2 or 3 months training under their belts. Judo was worse, I found it impossible to get any throws to work because I had never experience my partner/opponent actually fight back. Just my own 2 c's, while the body mechanics etc is way more refined and polished in Japan it still doesn't mean it will work in a fight.

[OldShintaro]

You know guys, I thought that Bujinkan had gone down hill. But it is worse than that. It just descended deeper in to the shit and world of complete fantasy.

People that are ex-Bujinkan all have the same view, it's shit. People that have never done it before, well...

Logically there are always drop-outs that leave for what ever reason, but there are simply too many people saying the same thing.

I don't know who in their right mind would teach that they can spar from ichimonji.
It appears that people that are teaching are taking concepts as literal. Seriously who in their right mind would expect you to be able to fight from a concept.

I can only agree with you guys, because if you are being taught that shit, change to something real like Kyokushin.

If any ex-Bujinkan people want to chime please do. I would like to hear more or just PM me.

I appreciate your time in responding.

EDIT: Actually one of the bigger problem is that the people teaching that shit, think that it is right. They need a good dose of reality. Bloody hell. No wonder it has become the laughing stock of the MA world.

[Styygens]

*Subscribe*

It looks like I missed the interesting portion of this party, but you never know...

[Gezere]

You know guys, I thought that Bujinkan had gone down hill. But it is worse than that. It just descended deeper in to the shit and world of complete fantasy.

People that are ex-Bujinkan all have the same view, it's shit. People that have never done it before, well...

Logically there are always drop-outs that leave for what ever reason, but there are simply too many people saying the same thing.

I don't know who in their right mind would teach that they can spar from ichimonji.
It appears that people that are teaching are taking concepts as literal. Seriously who in their right mind would expect you to be able to fight from a concept.

I can only agree with you guys, because if you are being taught that shit, change to something real like Kyokushin.

If any ex-Bujinkan people want to chime please do. I would like to hear more or just PM me.

I appreciate your time in responding.

EDIT: Actually one of the bigger problem is that the people teaching that shit, think that it is right. They need a good dose of reality. Bloody hell. No wonder it has become the laughing stock of the MA world.

The Buj was never really up hill. NEVER. I started back in the 80s while I was in Japan as well and had an on and off relationship with it. There was never any real sparring, as compared with the likes Judo, Boxing, Kyokushin, etc. I also used to think it could be saved because I was able to pull some modified techniques off but that was due more Judo than the Buj. Simple fact is pretty much nothing in the Buj is taught in any manner that you would actually apply it. You're not the first, and not the last, who will try to "fix" it, and sadly you will fail like all the rest. Why? Because when you actually start injecting "reality" into it will no longer look like anything you learned, period. It would be like taking the Chun then changing it so much that you are doing flying armbars and then still claiming it's the Chun. And trust me I have tried to help fix the Buj even trying to show and explain actual ways to better apply techniques but you just get into big bitch fests with the likes of Ben Cole ( a man who I truly believe can't literally fight is way out of a paper bag) and other heavy high ranking kool aid drinkers.

[Colin]

It appears that people that are teaching are taking concepts as literal. Seriously who in their right mind would expect you to be able to fight from a concept.

So, you should teach one thing and practise another? or rather, you are supposed to fill in the blanks and use your imagination when you actually fight for real?

If you are practising dead patterns, that's all you'll ever be able to do. If the curriculum isn't directly relevant to combat, it's a waste of fucking time. (if getting better at fighting is your goal)

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training"

Once you understand this in context of the Buj, you will realise how arrogant and misguided you sound to us.

[OldShintaro]

But any MA that has along form like kata could be thought of the same.

[OldShintaro]

Gezere,
Cheers mate. Australia must have been different. What can I say? But you are right.
When I think about it, my throws were most likely effective due to the Judo I had done. And the fighting due to Kyokushin Karate.
You know, I really do believe you about trying to change Bujinkan. I personally don't think that I could change the whole, but at least try to get the guy where I train to change, even a bit. He already knows that the long stuff is BS, but he doesn't do the throws and other stuff, I think due to scare of litigation. I like training with him because I hit him hard and he returns the favour.

So I now realise that Bujinkan learnt in isolation is pointless. Which is why people say what they say.

Theory:

So I wonder, *if* some of the scrolls are real, then without the knowledge of other disciplines ALL techniques will be ineffective. So I would further theorise that what is taught in Bujinkan is like an "add-on" to an existing MA base.
Maybe that is why I found it affective?

So given that, I wouldn't recommend that anybody do Bujinkan without at least 3 years of something like Karate and judo. Could be any combination of fighting style and grappling style.

[Colin]

Cheers mate. Australia must have been different.

Nope. I live in Australia, and the Buj here is just as shit as it is everywhere else. You can't polish a turd.

So I now realise that Bujinkan... is pointless.

Fixed that for you.
Even Aikidoka are better prepared for combat than Taijutsuka, imo. And that's saying a lot.

[OldShintaro]

Colin,
Did you ever venture to the main land in the early 90's to look at Bujinkan?