American Schools Shaolin Kempo (and the BS I have dealt with)

[goodlun]

I will repay what I have been saying.

All you have been saying is I have been doing martial arts along time so bow down to my appeal to authority other than you know actually making a point.

One person believed they were told to grab the blade. If I said to you grab that knife you are going to take it as you see fit. All I was pointing out was that one person claims they were told to grab the blade when they could have been told to grab the knife, or "it" referring to a hand, wrist or knife handle.

See the story as told it would be hard for it to be ambiguous as you see he asked if he should grab the hand if that is what the instructor meant he would have said so at that point.

I told him that I was concerned about the fact that we actually are being instructed to grab a knife and in the street that'd be a good way to get your fingers chopped off with all the adrenaline coursing through your body. I was saying that the same technique would work if we just trapped the hand instead. He was angry that I wouldn't want to work the technique from start to finish the way he showed me. He said that my method wouldn't work because the attacker would be able to manipulate the knife.

" drinking the koolaid" is hardly a correct turn of phrase for an intelligent discussion about martial arts.

Its very hard to have an intelligent conversation when you don't say anything intelligent instead you throw out logical fallacies like your appeals to authority and your No true Scotsman. Also you have a bad habit of blaming the reader for taking you out of context when you have done a piss poor job of putting any sort of thing into context.

I have loved every minute of my martial arts training and have dabbled in different styles. I have learned a lot from different instructors over the years and have even disagreed with some things.

I enjoy how its ok for YOU to disagree but not someone else to disagree.

As much as martial arts is not cooking it is not high school wrestling either.

Seriously? I mean seriously? Are you really going to say wrestling isn't a martial art. What the hell is a "martial art" then? let me guess it requires dancing around in your pajamas.

The point, is he got shitty instruction and should have called the teacher out on it especially when the teacher asked if their was any questions.

To put things into "context" if I where say taking a history class and the teacher said
"The Battle of Gettysburg happened in 1812, because the Vietnamese's wanted their independence from the French" I would certainly say something.

If I where in a math class and the freaking teacher was doing a math problem and ignored very basic rules like order of operations or don't divide by 0 I would say something.

If I am paying someone to teach me something by god the shit they teach me better be right. I have no time for delicate egos or other bullshit.

[ermghoti]

Ermghoti,

You state that they are teaching dangerous things but until you take lessons and see this for yourself I implore you to not judge by one persons view.

No. Simply incorrect. Unless the OP is lying about that technique, there is no mitigation possible. There is no excuse, ever, to grab a knife by the blade in a disarm. It would be like telling someone to hold their hands behind their back in stand-up. It would be like telling someone to close their eyes while driving.

The original poster stated that they, a novice in this art, was attempting to tell the master he was wrong in the middle of a class thus was shut down. As was stated before, there is a propper time and place. You are not correct in doing this and even more wrong for then getting upset and screaming ow horrible these people are online because you got shut down.

The instructor asked for questions, and the OP provided one, based on his previous (valid) training. The instructor took offense at being questioned, refused to demonstrate the technique, and then hit the student. Even if the OP were in the wrong, that is out of line. If I'm at a BJJ class, and I'm being shown a technique I believe to be dangerous, illegal in competition or unwise on the street, I'm free to ask about it. It happens all the time. "What if I..." questions are answered either with a demonstration, a counter, or an admission of fallibility of technique. That's what quality instruction looks like.

All I am saying is that if you go in arrogant then you will get upset when the instructor doesn't stroke our ego. You pay instructors to show you what they were taught.

To be fair, the OP is probably butthurt, and if his narrative is to be believed, he went into the school with a negative attitude. That does not excuse in anyway that this school is used to extract money from students at the least possible investment of effort rather than teach martial arts. It does not excuse having untrained instructors. It does not excuse striking students outside of training. It does not excuse teaching lethally flawed self-defense against weapons to novices.

[WhiteShark]

"grab a punch out of the air." Run it's over let go nobody listens to disco.

[It is Fake]

Thank you for catching my spelling error. Now, again since I was taken out of context I will repay what I have been saying. One person believed they were told to grab the blade. If I said to you grab that knife you are going to take it as you see fit. All I was pointing out was that one person claims they were told to grab the blade when they could have been told to grab the knife, or "it" referring to a hand, wrist or knife handle.

Let me get this right, you are correcting what he wrote while not being there, but you just argued you need to see something to judge it. You do see the irony and contradiction in your statements right?

And " drinking the koolaid" is hardly a correct turn of phrase for an intelligent discussion about martial arts. Just because I choose to point out different sides of the same issue is no need for you to get hateful.

Telling someone what to write and what to say is not about an intelligent discussion. You started this off by being a bossy little cheerleader who drank the kool-aide.

I have loved every minute of my martial arts training and have dabbled in different styles. I have learned a lot from different instructors over the years and have even disagreed with some things. As much as martial arts is not cooking it is not high school wrestling either.

Wrestling is a martial art cooking is not. Dabbling? That tells us more than you think...... beginner. You do know you just contradicted yourself again.

[W. Rabbit]

W. rabbit,

I was merely stating that Daggermouth was in the lessons with a closed mind and preconceived notions and expectations and that is no way to study any art out there.

IIF is right you're very contradictory....first it was temporal (8 classes isn't enough) now it's close mindedness and preconceptions?

Sure sounds like you're just making up excuses.

An art can easily sell itself the first time you take part. If it takes months and months to convince you, maybe it's really brainwashing.

[Chili Pepper]

The instructor asked for questions, and the OP provided one, based on his previous (valid) training. The instructor took offense at being questioned, refused to demonstrate the technique, and then hit the student. Even if the OP were in the wrong, that is out of line. If I'm at a BJJ class, and I'm being shown a technique I believe to be dangerous, illegal in competition or unwise on the street, I'm free to ask about it. It happens all the time. "What if I..." questions are answered either with a demonstration, a counter, or an admission of fallibility of technique. That's what quality instruction looks like.

I taught briefly at a karate school (they wanted their black belts to get exposure to other styles), and during my first class, I said "any questions?" and someone belted out "NO SIR!" I had to stop things and explain that me saying "any questions?" was indeed just what it sounded like, and not a veiled demand that people toe the line.

Yes, if the instructor asks for questions, and a student asks a valid question (one of which might be "why the fuck are you grabbing the blade?") then quality instruction requires a valid answer.

[It is Fake]

See, your example doesn't work CP because YOU changed the environment and made it okay.

Yes, IMO, it would be disrespectful to question an instructor publicly when you KNOW he is a shithead and has dumbass rules. You know how stupid traditional arts can be with etiquette. Heck, you just posted one of the classic "SIR YES SIR, I WILL WILLINGLY DRINK THE KOOL-AIDE SIR" stories. Yes, you PAY for instruction, you are entitled to a certain level of expectation and instruction. Yet, I give you PERMISSION to use my facilities under my rules. Don't like it leave. Which is what he did. It doesn't make me right or better, but it is "my school" and people can freely *cough* mysfit *cough* drink the Kool-aide with no disruptions from "you."

[Chili Pepper]

See, your example doesn't work CP because YOU changed the environment and made it okay.

Fair enough - I was assuming the instructor asking for questions meant it as such, which is indeed not always the case. Or, the instructor might only want questions about the technique itself ("is your hand thumb up, or thumb down at Point X") rather than more broad-ranging questions ("is that technique wise, when I could do this other technique instead?").

To the OP, did students generally ask questions when provided the opportunity? And if so, was the general range of your question outside that which was normally asked?

[It is Fake]

Oh I agree with your point. It's just in my experience that assinine TMAers mean "Do you need to see it again" when asking if there are any questions. His two explanations and the current complaining of Ms. Appeal to authority makes me feel it is one of those schools.

[Chili Pepper]

We are, sir, in complete agreement. I vow it shall be the last time.

[all7hatremains]

Made this account just because I stumbled upon this post, and wanted to add some input.

I studied under this system for 3 1/2 years, and hold a 1st degree brown belt in it. (Its been like 4 years since I've trained due to me being in the Military now). My uncle owned a studio underneath these people for a long time, and I trained under him.

What you have described here is absolutely TRUE for these people. Zach is an arrogant little shit made-so by his father. Master Pearl is a VERY good martial artist, but his arrogance is nothing to look past.

Zach was basically GIVEN his black belt. In fact, my uncle was one of the instructors DURING his black belt test. (My uncle holds a 5th degree black belt and was the 2nd highest ranked under master pearl) At the end of the test, when master pearl pulled all the instructors in, he asked who they thought should pass, and not pass. My uncle is the ONLY one who stood up and said that Zack shouldn't pass, because my uncle...has balls. No one else would say anything bad about the head masters son. Master pearls wife was handed a black belt (3rd degree I believe) with no test or anything. She just showed up with it one day. (My aunt is also a 3rd degree who had to test for hers, and was VERY pissed). Anyways, back to Zacks initial black belt test. According to my uncle, Zack was pacing back and forth in the back of the room too tired to do anything within the first 15 minutes of the (8 hour) test. He is a disgrace to martial arts.

My Uncle continually told me to be ready to spar this kid, because that he may put me up against him one day to prove a point. (This isn't meaning to brag, but I could beat this kids ass. I'm pretty sure some of our 5 year old yellow belts could too)

Master Pearl used to also judge sparring at his dojo in Salem, where he would put people against Zack. Any time the other person would get the best of Zack, Master Pearl would tell them they are being too rough, ETC.

The last draw was when we had our last tournament while being a part of USSK. Our Dojo had a VERY talented 2nd degree black belt, who pretty much ALWAYS took 1st places in the black belt events at the end of the tournament. He stood out above EVERY other black belt there. He would OBVIOUSLY win sparring, and everyone watching, knew it. There were 4 corner judges, and master pearl in the middle as the main judge. The corner judges were to confirm what points they saw when the head master called "up" because he saw a point. Brian (the 2nd degree) had already taken first place trophies that day, so master pearl wanted the Salem DOJO to have the sparring trophy. So he OBVIOUSLY geared the match so that brian lost. To the point of the crowd boo'ing. He would call up, and all 4 corner judges would say that they saw Brian score a point, and then he would just wave it off and say that he didn't like it, and it was too messy. This happened 3 or 4 times to Brian. (The match only goes to 3 points!)

After this happened, my Uncle had had enough and broke off and created his own system. Got rid of the attrocious 8 point blocking system, and got rid of a lot of other stuff that had nothing to do with self defense, or the art.

I could go on and on about how fucked up that family is. But its just that, that family. I met a lot of very nice, and talented martial artists in that system. If you can get past their BS, there is quite a bit of take away.

[Israfel]

dude your school sounds like dogshit


sever

[kelvis]

Most people know, especially in N.E. that anything associated with Villari is McDojo and a complete waste of time. Unless of course you want to shell out money so you can claim you have a blackbelt in a year...use the search function noob! Damn I always wanted to say that. Noob joke aside, check this site out thoroughly before running into another McDojo. If you want a good school I recommend any run by Ashida Kim, he has a lot of respect on Bullshido. Look it up ;-)

[hardpunch]

Gee, you should start your own dojo since you know so much. I trained under Master Pearlswig when he was in San Diego and I happen to think he is very good. It sounds like no dojo is good enough for you. Good luck to you in your study of the marital arts, my friend.

[kempo99]

Hello, my name is Shawn. I'm currently a Brown 1st in this system under Master Robert Pearlswig. Yes, I said Master. He is not a Grand Master. Fred Vilarri is a Grand Master. I have studied under Master Pearl, Mister Zack, and other highly qualified instructors for 7 years now. I find it amazing that you can dissect a knife defense after only a few weeks of training. These moves and defenses take thousands of repetitions to become useful. But hey, you seem to have all the answers. You cant hand a person a guitar, give them one lesson, and expect Joe Satriani speed, accuracy, and smoothness. Karate and other martial arts are no different. As to Master Pearl striking you when you called him out in front of the class, well... a palm is fortunate for you. iv'e seen our black belts fight full on contact and i can tell you first hand, our system works. if you really want to see, just ask. im certain you will get the answers you need. Lastly, Don't talk smack about my Master and his family when you are the one who entered our Dojo with a closed mind and a bad attitude. Enjoy your journey from school to school for that is all your life will amount to until you change your attitude and empty your cup. this is the only post i will make here. Flame on!