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David Soard and Shaolin-do/Chinese Shao-lin centers

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    David Soard and Shaolin-do/Chinese Shao-lin centers

    I have heard it said that ignorance is bliss. I am reminded of this because I read this thread including the court report and his testimony. Thank you to whomever posted this, I guess.

    I have trained in several programs over the years, this one being the most recent.

    The program, training and art are or were good if you could get past the hype and some of the less than professional or personable people. But it has been impacted.

    It appears some of the students were seconds rushed to third for the purpose of salvaging. Unfortunately this comes out so readily in the inexperience of the young instructors.

    I have started to question the ethics of my local instructor and whether I belong. After reading EM David's testimony, I am starting to question if the ethical issue goes all the way up to GM The'. This is generally how things flow.

    I also start to question, why are all these cases being sealed? What else is coming down the pike that is being kept quiet.

    The very reason I was on the internet was looking for a different program. I stumbled upon this and kept reading.

    I believe I should be spending more time searching for another program. I have been quite misinformed. That in itself speaks to ethics. To say nothing is one thing; to say something that is completely false and readily documented as such is another.

    Has anybody noticed how David Soard is so obviously trying to impact the google search by putting out a lot of David Soard Pleads Guilty to Being Vegan, to Being a dedicated teacher, David Soard talks about harrasment of monks. No doubt obviously still trying to cover things up.


      Hello, I notice you have bumped two old Shaolin-Do threads. Please pick one or start a new thread.


        They lie about a lot of things. Their whole foundation is a lie and a laugh at true Chinese martial and cultural history. The shao lin merely collected and possibly advanced the training in many of the forms and styles, but they were not creators of the arts quite contradictory to what is propogated in the CSC.

        If you try to address this with them or question anything, they tell you that you do not know what you are talking about and you should respect your elders.

        Their program does have some good qualities to it, but as it is in its current condition and with all the questions of unethical behavior, there are just too many other options available to be bothered with this organization.

        I also have to continue to wonder about the ethics of Grand Master The'. There simply is too much unethical behavior below him for it not to be coming from him. And even if it is not coming from him, he seems fine with it.
        Last edited by Yangwooddragon; 1/22/2012 7:44pm, .



          Okay, now you can discuss how you feel about the schools. Both threads you bumped were old. The first is open for new information purposes only.
          Last edited by It is Fake; 1/22/2012 8:12pm, .


            Having trained at three separate kwoons over the years, I have come to accept there is crap in all of them and good in all of them. And most of their moves are the same with minor modifications. So it comes down to what is important in a training program.

            Sparring is perhaps the most important, in my opinion. One place I trained and trained and trained and trained and learned to train, not apply. So I came to learn sparring is important. Tai qi and active freestyle. Gloves no gloves, open closed, I do not care, just respectful non KO sparring. I have never minded getting bruised or taught a lesson during sparring. CSC spars both tai qi and active, but make a big deal about putting on some gloves and making contact. My belief is take em off you might learn quicker.

            Conditioning is important too. The shao lin talk about their training being hard. It is not as hard as some others. Maybe hard to someone who has not trained before except to lift a beer or grab the remote, but a reasonably in-shape person should have minor difficulties with their conditioning, even their yin yang, blackbelt out door and five animal conditioning.

            Warm up is important. This is clearly a weakpoint on the CSC program. They simply do not have a clue. No use saying anything else, it would simply be too long and too difficult to explain why they simply do not have a clue when it comes to warm up.

            Yin aspect. Again no clue. In fact most of their instructors really do not have a great grasp of the concepts of yin, yang, qi and internal except that they are words and it comes from some place below the navel. I have seen several of them talk of acupuncture points and clearly not know someone in the audience knew much more than them and knew they were wrong.

            At least three hours in duration. This perhaps is the biggest fall back of most martial arts programs, but the CSC actually allows this to be accomplished on the few days they are open. If I can only be in class for forty five minutes to an hour, it is usually not worth transporting myself to the location. There are parks in my neighborhood for short workouts.

            It has to covers the basics including punching, kicking, sweeping and throwing, groundwork and locks. The CSC covers the first three well. Although throwing and locking are in the art, applications are quite weak and often misunderstood by the instructors.

            Groundwork is minimal at best. A real weakness in their program. They brush it off but it is a fact, absolute and certain, no mats, no rolling, no grappling, no shuaijiao, some drop sweeps and that is about it for the groundwork. No tapping. Ahhhhh I need to make someone tap. Sorry had a moment there. But I am back.

            So I think that is about it for the program side, but you cannot forget the business side. The people who run CSC are unethical, in my opinion. It has been demonstrated time and again.

            I am seriously questioning the ethics of GMT. I already had a seedling of question in my mind when I was first exposed to their yang long form. It was quite similiar to two other long forms but had just enough difference to call it different; Maybe because I did the others for so much longer, I never to this day felt comfortable with the differences shown in CSC. Whenever I practice their form at home, I pretty much remove those differences.

            Since he associates with unethical people so deeply and for such a long time and since there is unethical behavior at all levels of his organization, one simply has to ask, where does he stand ethically?

            As far along in the program as I was I could tolerate some of the bs because overal the program was good, but then it got bad.
            Lots of inexperienced teachers filling voids to save and rebuild. But again I was willing to save and help rebuild until I read the transcripts of the testimony of Sharon Soard and David Soard.

            I wish Sharon Soard had not taken the stand and soiled herself so, but I completely understand I would have done the same. If I can give David Soard some advice, own up, bow out much like you have told so many others to do. Let someone who is more qualified take over. It is the only honorable thing to do. You, David Soard, showed poor judgment in your personal and professional affairs on numerous occasions.
            Last edited by Yangwooddragon; 1/22/2012 8:55pm, .



              You are about to get a time out.



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