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    Worried about my sons Dojo

    Hi there,

    I'm a mother to an 8 year old boy and he's been studying ninjutsu at a local dojo. Lately there's been some talk amongst other members that this is not an accredited school and the sensei isnt a black belt as he claims. I'll admit, I know nothing about martial arts except that they can teach self defense, discipline and self awareness, things I want for my son. So my question is how do I find out if this guy is who he says he is and what are the repercussions for my son if he isn't? I'm guessing his skills won't be recognised if we decide to change Dojos and he'll be stripped of his green belt etc. Is there anything else? According to one of the other members who has studied in another Dojo, his techniques are fine so I'm not too worried about that aspect of things but maybe I should be. Thanks in advance.

    Jupiterbite.

    #2
    Ninjutsu is a somewhat dubious martial art all round really, though the two main 'legitimate' ninjutsu organisations are the Bujinkan and Genbukan, I think both organisations list their clubs on their websites so if your sons is not on either of those then the chances are it is not 'legitimate'.

    If you want better quality control and openly accredited clubs it may be worth looking into Judo instead for your son, there are loads of clubs around and most are accredited to national organisations.

    Judo also gives a grading structure that is portable (assuming the club is part of the main national organisation), is very good for self-defense and also provides a sport route even to the Olympics for the best Judo players.

    Comment


      #3
      Well you have quite a few misconceptions.

      1) Rank is rarely recognized Dojo to Dojo unless it is within a very specific group.
      2) Green? In most arts that is a low/beginner rank and shouldn't matter.
      3) At eight starting over will affect you more than him.

      Accreditation in martial arts is not like a school. Lineage is more important than accreditation. If he can prove he is ranked ask to see his certification. If he balks find another school. Than again, you are going to soon receive many posts saying remove your son based on the art.

      Comment


        #4
        What the other two posters said.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
          Than again, you are going to soon receive many posts saying remove your son based on the art.
          Well crap. You just had to take all the fun right out of it, didn't you?

          The question of whether or not he should be taking ninjitsu hinges on why he's taking it. If it's for self-defense, then there are likely better uses for his time. If it's because he's 8 and thinks ninjas are cool, well then it's what he wants to do. These days getting kids to do something other than video games seems to be a small miracle.

          Comment


            #6
            Nope, no miracle. It is the parents faults not the kids.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Jupiterbite View Post
              Hi there,

              I'm a mother to an 8 year old boy and he's been studying ninjutsu at a local dojo. Lately there's been some talk amongst other members that this is not an accredited school and the sensei isnt a black belt as he claims. I'll admit, I know nothing about martial arts except that they can teach self defense, discipline and self awareness, things I want for my son. So my question is how do I find out if this guy is who he says he is and what are the repercussions for my son if he isn't? I'm guessing his skills won't be recognised if we decide to change Dojos and he'll be stripped of his green belt etc. Is there anything else? According to one of the other members who has studied in another Dojo, his techniques are fine so I'm not too worried about that aspect of things but maybe I should be. Thanks in advance.

              Jupiterbite.
              If you want your son to learn an effective and affordable martial art as an eight year old, Judo and/or wrestling is your best bet. They both emphasize takedown to pinning techniques that teaches kids to restrain rather than hit their aggressors. This comes in handy in meetings with school principles or Judges. It looks much better to the authorities if your offspring pins someone to the ground instead of bloodying/beating their face.

              If you're looking for physical development and balance only, go for gymnastics.

              If you're looking for after school care, you don't need a martial art that might teach your child a false sense of confidence or worse, poor falling skills. I say this because I've seen many unqualified martial artist instructors teach ukemi, or how to fall, in a manner that would result in injury.

              Contrast this to countless examples of Judoka or wrestlers that survived bad falls from heights or going over the handles bars on bicycles at a decent speed and walking away from it.
              Last edited by jnp; 12/26/2011 11:58pm, .
              Shut the hell up and train.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Jupiterbite View Post
                Hi there,

                I'm a mother to an 8 year old boy and he's been studying ninjutsu at a local dojo. Lately there's been some talk amongst other members that this is not an accredited school and the sensei isnt a black belt as he claims. I'll admit, I know nothing about martial arts except that they can teach self defense, discipline and self awareness, things I want for my son. So my question is how do I find out if this guy is who he says he is and what are the repercussions for my son if he isn't? I'm guessing his skills won't be recognised if we decide to change Dojos and he'll be stripped of his green belt etc. Is there anything else? According to one of the other members who has studied in another Dojo, his techniques are fine so I'm not too worried about that aspect of things but maybe I should be. Thanks in advance.

                Jupiterbite.
                Can you give us a name of the teacher or the school?

                Albeit Takamatsu-den schools(Genbukan, Bujinkan, Jinenkan) are the only organizations that can remotely come close to claiming "Ninjutsu." There are some shootoff schools that have lineage leading back to those Orgs. My advice is usually to stay away from schools promoting "Ninjutsu this & Ninjutsu that, Ninja this & Ninja that" Because even those organizations listed have very little ninjutsu. It is mostly Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, and etc etc schools. So if they are trying to promote being Ninja... You are better off signing up your son for Cosplaying. Because usually if the quality of the school is good they aren't worried about lying about who they are in order to gain students. If your son is interested in martial arts that contain self defense, discipline, and self awareness. You can PM(private message) me and I will gladly help you look for a school in your area.

                Comment


                  #9
                  as an eight year old, Judo and/or wrestling is your best bet. They both emphasize takedown to pinning techniques that teaches kids to restrain rather than hit their aggressors. This comes in handy in meetings with school principles or Judges.
                  This is so quote worthy.

                  Welcome to Bullshido Jupiter.

                  I would recommend, should you find that your son's instructor is a fraud, that you remove him from the situation as quietly and delicately as possible. You don't want liars teaching your kids, regardless of the techniques.

                  The thing about ranks (and Bullshido is the internet shrine dedicated to highlighting this concept, particularly for parents) is that they are so easy to lie about, especially to kids.

                  Kids want to be ninjas for a reason, they've been glorified for 30+ years in America. My kids want to be ninjas (and jedi and pirates etc) but adults who want to be ninjas...you have to wonder why.

                  The "black cloaked" ninja legacy is a fabrication, on Bullshido that is parodied as the "black pajamas" ninja. The reason for this is that many adult practitioners are "ninjutsu" are, in fact, overgrown children. A search of this very website will show you some doozies.

                  Now that said, there are useful techniques throughout what people call "ninjutsu" in these schools, but in every case I've heard of the techniques are borrowed from other, more verifiable arts, like the jujutsu of the samurai. And chances are, they are not trained in an realistic way no matter what they are.

                  And as far as belts are concerned, your son's first lesson should be the belt color should always keep returning to white, or else you really get nowhere. I hope that makes sense. The color isn't as important as his actual progress.
                  Last edited by W. Rabbit; 12/27/2011 1:59am, .
                  '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

                  My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

                  Comment


                    #10
                    As mentioned retaining rank when moving from school to school often doesn't happen unless you are able to stay within a specific organization. In the case where rank isn't retained the skills learned are more important. If your son is currently learning ninjutsu it's likely he's learning a mishmash of skills including; punches, kicks, chokes, joint locks, and/or judo style throws. If your son goes to another school how well will he be able to demonstrate any of these skills? At green belt level chances are he won't be proficient at much even by his own school's standards (which is normal). If he stays at his school and trains to an advanced level once he leaves this school and visits another he may be surprised to learn his skills aren't what he was told they are.

                    My problem with all inclusive styles that train all the areas of fighting I mentioned earlier is that few of these schools spend the time necessary to produce students that are good at any one of the skills. In your son's case he trains ninjitsu there are other schools that are similiar, some are traditional Japanese Jujutsu schools, there are other non-japanese examples as well. From what i've seen a black belt in the respective "all around style" will have a grasp on striking, throwing, grappling, ect. but if you compare them to a relatively low ranking student of a style that specializes in strikes, throws, or whatever they won't stack up. The idea of learning an all around system sound appealing but in reality often all that is trained is mediocre skills that will never progress passed that level.

                    Many people have suggested Judo, I don't train Judo but also agree with this recommendation. If you can find a Brazilian Jiujitsu school that may also be worth while. In these arts students are usually trained to obtain a dominant and safe position in a fight, once the safe position is obtained an offense can begin if necessary.

                    I'm not sure anyone has come right out and said it but ninjitsu has a dubious lineage. Even the two most "legitimate" schools previously mentioned have failed to provide the necessary documentation the japanese are known for to become a commonly accepted martial art. Often training ninjitsu is viewed like training to be a knight or pirate.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you.

                      Thanks so much for all your replies. After reading your suggestions I've discussed this at length with my partner, (who has been studying with my son at this Dojo) and we're just not feeling good about this at all anymore. We've done a quick search and found a Martial Arts centre, two towns away, that offers Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and we're going to look into it this week. It's going to be really hard to extricate ourselves from this situation as the sensei has become a kind of friend, but for the sake of my son we can't go on with this training. I want him to learn from some one with integrity and in an art of repute and it just feels like this guy has some issues which are getting in the way of all that.

                      Once again, thank you, you've helped us look at this much more clearly.

                      Kind regards,
                      Jupiterbite.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        maybe he has issues, but he can also just be naive. chances are he's completely convinced of his abilities, the quality of his style and lineage.
                        he might also just be a charlatan.

                        if you read the archives here, you'll see many people come with strong opinions about the style they train and it is hard to be confronted and move on after having spent so many years training it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jupiterbite View Post
                          We've done a quick search and found a Martial Arts centre, two towns away, that offers Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and we're going to look into it this week.
                          If you post a link to that school, or tell us who the instructor is, we can easily verify his credentials.

                          BJJ is beginning to have a problem with pretenders who call themselves instructors, but have never trained under a recognized school or instructor themselves.

                          By the way, my son started training BJJ at 7 years old this year. He enjoys it quite a bit, although some of that is because of the games and agility drills he goes through every class.
                          Shut the hell up and train.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            jupiterbite;

                            I don't want to cause drama or put you on the spot by asking you for opinions or anecdotes about the ninjutsu dojo your son is currently enrolled in, but I'm very curious now. Does the school have a website you could link to? That should answer many of my questions. Thanks.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Regarding the green belt- I had a black belt in a style that I eventually quit, to become a beginner again. It was actually a really good feeling. A child may have some gripes about starting over again as a white belt, but a lot of us have made that transition and have been very happy about it.

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