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    "noob" asks a stupid question

    Hello all,

    I'm sure you can tell from my "handle" I am a traditional Karate practitioner. I have noticed that a lot of you are MMA or BJJ/Muay Thai students. I have also noticed a lot of being down on karate. My question is what if any styles of karate would you respect as a legitimate fighting art? I would like to hear the opinions of people who have actually studied some karate. Not just the "I read this thread and it sucks." or "I heard from so and so that all TKD guys take it in the ass". Give me some hard evidence for your case for or against. I.E. personal experience in ring or street, records, videos ect. Thanks guys.

    BTW, I am fully prepared for what I am about to read.

    #2
    Kyokushin Karate.

    The people who practice it fight with it.

    Anecdotally, all the one's I've met are hard and fighty.

    Comment


      #3
      Lol. There is plenty of karate people on here, go over and check out the style forums for karate threads, alot of good dicussions on there.

      Most people on this site dont have a thing against styles in general, they have a thing against people who don't spar and still claim that thier style is going to work in a pressure situation.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Karatedo View Post
        Hello all,

        I'm sure you can tell from my "handle" I am a traditional Karate practitioner. I have noticed that a lot of you are MMA or BJJ/Muay Thai students. I have also noticed a lot of being down on karate. My question is what if any styles of karate would you respect as a legitimate fighting art? I would like to hear the opinions of people who have actually studied some karate. Not just the "I read this thread and it sucks." or "I heard from so and so that all TKD guys take it in the ass". Give me some hard evidence for your case for or against. I.E. personal experience in ring or street, records, videos ect. Thanks guys.

        BTW, I am fully prepared for what I am about to read.
        Since when did unsubstantiated claims of fighting prowess count as hard evidence? The only way in which such claims would carry any value are if the one claiming them provides video evidence or some other reliable record.

        That being said, most people don't hate karate - they hate the general lack of consistent quality control 'karate' as a group of styles tends to have. Kyokushin is an awesome type of karate, but as has been pointed out - they fight using it, so they know exactly what does and does not work.

        If you want personal experiences, I hold a first dan in shotokan karate. The organisation with which I was associated was full of people who simply didn't want to learn to fight, and were more interested in learning kata and LARPing. That is my personal experience of karate; but, as I have pointed out, as an unsubstantiated anecdote it is largely worthless.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks to both of you. @Syberia, I know there are plenty of Karate people. Just wanted to hear from the others. Btw, Your point on not sparring and having you style still work is VERY valid. I was invited to watch a "Self Defense" seminar at a local school near mine. The instructor, An 8th degree in Dragon Jutsu Karate (don't even get me started on that) was demonstrating a defense against rear choke hold. This "defense" involved a series of flashy movements that ended up in a poorly executed hip toss. What really got me is while they practiced this rear choke hold NO ONE in the class actually applied the choke. Just casually put their arm around there partners neck. When I asked if I could be the "Masters" partner for a redemonstration of the technique I applied the choke like I would in a real life situation. Needless to say it ended with him tapping on my arm and telling his students that "people you encounter on the street won't have the experience I do." Please...... @ Mickey, I regress my request for records then. Just thought that might hold some water in this forum. I'm sorry you had a poor experience. I agree many schools are just role playing.
          Last edited by Karatedo; 12/19/2011 9:09am, .

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Karatedo View Post
            Hello all,

            I'm sure you can tell from my "handle" I am a traditional Karate practitioner. I have noticed that a lot of you are MMA or BJJ/Muay Thai students. I have also noticed a lot of being down on karate. My question is what if any styles of karate would you respect as a legitimate fighting art? I would like to hear the opinions of people who have actually studied some karate. Not just the "I read this thread and it sucks." or "I heard from so and so that all TKD guys take it in the ass". Give me some hard evidence for your case for or against. I.E. personal experience in ring or street, records, videos ect. Thanks guys.

            BTW, I am fully prepared for what I am about to read.
            I am a karateka, as well, and I would have to agree with Syberia's assessment--it isn't so much the style as whether the individual dojo trains with resistance/contact or not and whether the instructor's credentials are legitimate. I've met people from "good" styles who have never had a single contact sparring session and have never worked techniques on a resisting opponent, and I've met people from "bad" styles who have done those things. It really comes down to the individual dojo.

            That said, for the most part you will find that people on forums like this one will tend to respect Kyokushin and its off-shoots (Enshin, Ashihara, Daido Juko, etc.) because they almost always do contact sparring.

            Comment


              #7
              @ mickey. Thats why I asked for video or records ;)

              I agree with you there are TOO MANY schools who's concentration are not on learning to fight. I'm not a sport karate guy. I'm a self defense and mental strength guy. We practice our techniques the same as the would be on the street. Sometimes people get hurt. Better in the Dojo with your friends than on the street with an enemy.

              Comment


                #8
                Karate, being the most prolific MA in America, has thus been the most bastardized from its original form.

                That said, you don't have to go far to find hard, ass-kicking karateka. But you'll be hard pressed to find them in, say, 99% of American strip mall dojos. You need to hunt down specific styles (kyokushin) or specific schools that are known for hard knocks (hint: use Bullshido Search Function).

                So when it comes to karate, my personal opinion is that there is a very high noise to signal ratio.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Karatedo View Post
                  Hello all,

                  I'm sure you can tell from my "handle" I am a traditional Karate practitioner. I have noticed that a lot of you are MMA or BJJ/Muay Thai students. I have also noticed a lot of being down on karate. My question is what if any styles of karate would you respect as a legitimate fighting art? I would like to hear the opinions of people who have actually studied some karate. Not just the "I read this thread and it sucks." or "I heard from so and so that all TKD guys take it in the ass". Give me some hard evidence for your case for or against. I.E. personal experience in ring or street, records, videos ect. Thanks guys.

                  BTW, I am fully prepared for what I am about to read.
                  Use the search function.

                  We practice our techniques the same as the would be on the street. Sometimes people get hurt. Better in the Dojo with your friends than on the street with an enemy.
                  No, no one practices the same as the street. NO ONE.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ahhh, it's a fake, I was waiting for you to chime in on this one. True it isn't "the same". But, if you don't train with with power and resistance then you aren't ready. If you've never been hit you don't know how to react when you really do get hit. So, I stand corrected. We don't train "the same" but we get as close as we can without causing intended serious injury to each other.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Karatedo View Post
                      Ahhh, it's a fake, I was waiting for you to chime in on this one.
                      Yes, because you used the "street" what did you expect?
                      True it isn't "the same". But, if you don't train with with power and resistance then you aren't ready. If you've never been hit you don't know how to react when you really do get hit. So, I stand corrected. We don't train "the same" but we get as close as we can without causing intended serious injury to each other.
                      No, you practice with resistance. You practice alive. As "close to the street" is a sales tactic. Just say yes we are a Karate school that practices alive. When you start saying anything related to "the street" no one takes you seriously.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Point taken. I will use the term alive from now on.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Assuming of course that you do practice alive, and not just practice doing things extra hard to still largely compliant partners. I've been to plenty of those.

                          Can you describe what you do?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I will do my best. We do practice full contact sparring. He do wear chest protection. No hand, foot, or head pads. We allow kicks to the legs body and head. Punches to the body only. During self defense when practicing punch defense we wear head and hands.(after black belt it is your choice to wear the pads.) we practice against full force punches, when training against restraints we use full resistance of the aggressor. I hope this is a good description for you Ignorami.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks. I only raised it, as I have seen a number of places that say they train as realistically as possible, but what they mean is they hurt their training partners by just applying the same dead forms too violently.

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