"The Streets" criticism of MMA

[Ke?poFist]

Why is it every time someone comes around here and goes on the tired rant about, concrete, weapons, multiple attackers, aids needles, lava, all being present in "REAL" situations and thus nullifying "MMA style" training, they always train themselves in something far less realistic and softer?

Assuming you on average train 2-3 days a week for 1.5hour sessions at a time, and you spend that time...

Doing Katas:Why? How is this productively preparing you for knife wielding thugs who want to rape your wife? You are dancing around a room, placing your hands and body into positions that are completely antithetical to how you'd place them in a real life situation.

Practicing Self Defense techniques compliantly or half speed at best: Why? Your opponent isn't going to stand there with his arm lunged out in front, while you politely twist his wrist, or execute a series of strikes to all of his 'vital areas' (nose/groin/throat/eyes). He's going to take a really hard swing at you, and in that split second you are either going to get hit or not get hit, and the fight will continue from there. Put on a mouthguard, a cup and hell even a facemask if you want to and man up. If you never increase the intensity to that of an MMA style sparring match, you will never come close to the intensity of that real "life or death" situation you are claiming to prepare for, and you will fail no matter how many wristlocks and nipple twists you pretend to do in class.

Hitting BOB (Body Opponent Bag) dummies: I've always hated these things. They aren't sturdy enough like a heavy bag to do a real workout on them, and they are missing limbs unlike throwing dummies meaning they don't simulate a human being well enough. They are pretty much useless all around outside of looking kind of cool in your gym. You stand there for 20minutes pretending to hit a rubber dummy in the face and ribs. You've actually found a bigger way to waste your training time than pretending to hit a real person.

[TheSERVICE]

I've seen this a lot and it saddens me that it's mostly done by people who should know better. Especially from the TMA schools that gives the rest of us a bad name. I've just graduated from the Vermont Corrections Academy last June and their "Defensive Tactics" was being taught as you labeled above. I felt bad for many of the cadets who had no "defensive training" background.

[Tranquil Suit]

So... preaching in a monastery?

[JingMerchant!]

Letting off steam, I'd wager....

[Ke?poFist]

Perhaps we agree more than we disagree. I've found a lot of people who come to this site and view it as a collection of "MMA fanboys" start off criticizing Mixed Martial Arts and are then caste as delusional for believing such.

I think you'll find the majority of senior members here to not only be experienced, but many are seasoned competitors and instructors of a wide variety of martial arts.

[Ke?poFist]

So... preaching in a monastery?

Letting off steam, I'd wager....

Simply replying to 3-4 threads in one shot, consolidating the discussion in the reverse form (instead of defending MMA style live training, flipping the script and asking how others train that's supposedly more realistic), and giving myself a thread to bump in the future to save myself time typing the same tired arguments.

[gregaquaman]

Simply replying to 3-4 threads in one shot, consolidating the discussion in the reverse form (instead of defending MMA style live training, flipping the script and asking how others train that's supposedly more realistic), and giving myself a thread to bump in the future to save myself time typing the same tired arguments.

Ok so the argument fails because because the arguments are stupid. But you do not want to be seen as a MMA nutrider.

Where does MMA fall short on the streets in your opinion?

[Ke?poFist]

Ok so the argument fails because because the arguments are stupid. But you do not want to be seen as a MMA nutrider.

Where does MMA fall short on the streets in your opinion?

Where did I say it falls short or is lacking?

[gregaquaman]

Where did I say it falls short or is lacking?

You diddn't but I would think everything has its limitations. If your belief that MMA is perfect then that is fine also.

I was more challenging you to better the street posters.

[Ke?poFist]

You diddn't but I would think everything has its limitations. If your belief that MMA is perfect then that is fine also.

I was more challenging you to better the street posters.

Ahh I understand where you were going with that now.

Well if the goal is the broad reaching term "Self defense" I find training at any wrestling, boxing, Judo or BJJ school to be more than sufficient for your goals.

If your goal however is to try and attain a complete tool set of martial arts training, I find that MMA is only lacking in the sense of non-physical training, an education in application, and of course weapons training.

What I mean by the first, is an understanding of situational awareness, body language and the like, which delves into psychology education. Knowing how to spot a situation before it arises, and possibly avoid or diffuse it is key.

The second being intelligent use and application of technique. High percentage techniques in an MMA match may spell disaster in a real situation given varying circumstances that you should be aware of. Much of this could be chalked up to common sense, but other not-so-obvious things can arise. As an example of such, I would advise someone fighting on the ground from their back to keep control of both of their opponents hands. In a BJJ match, going for a triangle is ideal, but if you don't sink the submission quickly and get stuck in transition in a real fight you leave your opponents hand free to perhaps grab something out of his pocket to use as a weapon. That can immediately change the dynamic of the fight.

That bringing us to my third point, which would be weapons training, both armed and unarmed defense against it. There's lots of great live training weapons SD training out there nowadays, and I'd think anyone who really wants to fully flesh out their martial arts toolbox should look into it, and maybe even attend a Dog Bros. gathering.

[JingMerchant!]

... and giving myself a thread to bump in the future to save myself time typing the same tired arguments.

A consolidated thread! Good idea! I may steal this one myself in future.

[Bneterasedmynam]

Why is it every time someone comes around here and goes on the tired rant about, concrete, weapons, multiple attackers, aids needles, lava, all being present in "REAL" situations and thus nullifying "MMA style" training, they always train themselves in something far less realistic and softer?

Assuming you on average train 2-3 days a week for 1.5hour sessions at a time, and you spend that time...

Doing Katas:Why? How is this productively preparing you for knife wielding thugs who want to rape your wife? You are dancing around a room, placing your hands and body into positions that are completely antithetical to how you'd place them in a real life situation.

Practicing Self Defense techniques compliantly or half speed at best: Why? Your opponent isn't going to stand there with his arm lunged out in front, while you politely twist his wrist, or execute a series of strikes to all of his 'vital areas' (nose/groin/throat/eyes). He's going to take a really hard swing at you, and in that split second you are either going to get hit or not get hit, and the fight will continue from there. Put on a mouthguard, a cup and hell even a facemask if you want to and man up. If you never increase the intensity to that of an MMA style sparring match, you will never come close to the intensity of that real "life or death" situation you are claiming to prepare for, and you will fail no matter how many wristlocks and nipple twists you pretend to do in class.

Hitting BOB (Body Opponent Bag) dummies: I've always hated these things. They aren't sturdy enough like a heavy bag to do a real workout on them, and they are missing limbs unlike throwing dummies meaning they don't simulate a human being well enough. They are pretty much useless all around outside of looking kind of cool in your gym. You stand there for 20minutes pretending to hit a rubber dummy in the face and ribs. You've actually found a bigger way to waste your training time than pretending to hit a real person.

I like using the bobs, the one I have has spent several years in the garage in high heat and cold, so the rubber on it is like iron now lol. I'm ok with weight bags too but I don't have the room. As far as katas and compliant training, I thought those were just for muscle memory, but I'm no expert on that. I think the mods should make a style vs. Style sub forum since these threads have effectively beaten one of these:

[CaseyRyback]

I always like these threads. I'd beat that horse like a BOB all day.

I'll always repect TMA and think they're needed to develop aspects of arts, but I can't tolerate dudes who'll say MMA is only meant useful for sport. I just want to break them of their denial that either they're afraid of getting hurt, getting too old, or playing make believe. I can see however if there are TMA that are simply fun, but don't go and say that its more effective than mma training.

I also just can't justify how people do katas other than doing for some type of meditation. I wanted to slap my wing chun friend when he said he spends many classes doing simply the sim niu tao.

[Kovacs]

Whenever 'sports versus street' rocks up I'm just going to use something I paraphrase from
some of the guys on here.

"Can't fight me with rules? Don't fight me without them."

[It is Fake]

I also just can't justify how people do katas other than doing for some type of meditation. I wanted to slap my wing chun friend when he said he spends many classes doing simply the sim niu tao.

This is another dead horse.